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  1. #31
    Harmless jdryyz's Avatar
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    Stephen,

    As Harrison said, I believe you are speaking more to LCD technology vs CRT. I do know that I will be giving up the refresh speed of a CRT. I was only referring to how well the U2410 handles 15KHz Amiga screen modes. I know it is not always done well, especially when it is not officially supported. Because the U2410 can be found used and relatively inexpensive now, I am willing to gamble a little.
    Last edited by jdryyz; 8th October 2014 at 16:17.

  2. #32
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    Burger Time Champion, Sonic Champion Harrison's Avatar
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    Personally I can only comment on the larger U2711 which I own and that handled 15KHz screen resolutions really well. I use it all the time for consoles, including retro (SNES, Amiga, Megadrive), more modern ones such as Xbox and PS2 via Component, and modern such as PS3 and 360, and it handles them all really well. The image quality is brilliant and because these are aimed at the photographic and design industry the colour accuracy is really good supporting Adobe RGB colour space settings as well as print CMYK modes. Design and photography is the main reason for my buying mine, but equally because it handles so much more for retro systems.

    You shouldn't be disappointed.
    Last edited by Harrison; 10th October 2014 at 00:47.

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  3. #33
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    I agree with Harrison that the quality at 15kHz is very good.

    If you can get a U2410 for a good price, you'll probably be pleased .

  4. #34
    Harmless jdryyz's Avatar
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    Thank for both for your input.

  5. #35
    Harmless jdryyz's Avatar
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    I finally found a U2410 at a good price. It works quite well as you all described. I do have one minor complaint with it, though. There seems to be some weird distortion when my mouse cursor moves on top of other static images on the screen. It is subtle, but consistent. I assume it has to do with the 15KHz processing internal to the display as I do not see this on any other display. Actually, I do see something similar on my Sharp TV, so it could be something inherent to LCD panels that sync this low.

    Here is a sample:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dr-Z...ature=youtu.be

    Also, although this does not have anything to do with the U2410, I notice it even more on this display. The Commodore 390682-01 RGB to VGA adapter has the unfortunate side effect of producing vertical lines on the screen. I remember reading about this back when the item first became available after the introduction of the A1200 and A4000. The response from most folks was that it was only noticeable on the initial boot but then it couldn't be seen when looking at the Workbench screen or with games/programs running. Well, I see the lines on everything.

    Was there any remedy for this involving modification of something in the adapter itself? Do all adapters have this problem or just the Commodore ones? I know Amigakit sells one and people have also made their own.

    You can see the vertical bands in the image I have attached (just ignore the moire pattern):

    bands.jpg

  6. #36
    RetroSteve! My location

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    I also get the distortion around the mouse pointer. I'm pretty sure it will just be to do with the scaling (and other processing) in the monitor. I don't think you'd be able to do anything about it.

    As for the vertical lines, I also get those, but never figured out what caused it. I thought it might have been the monitor, as I'd not seen it else where, but maybe it isn't. If it is caused by the adapter, I'd guess that the monitor just does a particularly good job of amplifying the lines. After all, it is quite a high resolution display.

    I'm not sure why an adapter would cause these lines. All the Commodore adapter is is a pin adapter for the R, G and B lines, and a couple of logic gates to alter the sync signals. I can't remember exactly what it does, or why, but if memory serves, the logic gates invert the sync signals.

    I will try and investigate further.

  7. #37
    Harmless jdryyz's Avatar
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    Yeah, I do not know what it is about the adapter that does this, but I know it is the source. If I run my RGB to SCART cable into my SCART to HDMI box, the lines disappear. Unfortunately, I have even more complaints about the converter box. Running the signal natively through the display seems the best way to go.
    Last edited by jdryyz; 24th December 2014 at 19:02.

  8. #38
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    Thread necromancy.. Anyone know how the monitor copes with Amiga modes BETWEEN 15 and 31KHz like I seem to recall one has a sync around 28KHz? Is this a multisync or a bisync?

  9. #39
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    I can't answer that for you and I don't have my monitor setup at the moment to test it out. Maybe Stephen can help.

    Dell don't actually state anything in the user guide about resolutions below 30KHz, other than the support for HDMI and other TV resolutions. The lower 15KHz support wasn't ever used as an official selling point and I think it happened as a bi-product of the monitors support for legacy TV modes.

    In fact the monitor states a Horizontal scan range of 30 - 81 kHz and a Vertical range of 56 to 76 Hz.

    And a maximum resolution of 1920x1200 at 60 Hz.

    Would be interesting to find out if it does manage the Amiga's AGA chipset higher scan ranges below VGA.

    Regarding the mouse. I've seen artifacts around the Amiga mouse pointer on every LCD screen I've ever used with the Amiga. And it happens on the Atari ST and other systems too. It's because the Amiga anti-aliases around the pointer and the Amiga overlays the mouse pointer above the screen resolution as a sprite of it's own resolution. LCD screens highlight any pixels used to anti-alias (smooth graphical edges) on most graphics originally designed for CRT because the original graphical artists used to utilise the CRTs scanlines in a way to make it look smoother. LCDs show every pixel clearly and this highlights the edges.

    Regarding vertical lines on the display. I've also had this with most displays, and even saw them on Microvitic Multisync monitors I used to use on my A1200 and A4000, so it isn't something exclusive to LCD displays. As you say it doesn't seem to happen with RGB SCART as its a clean signal directly from the RGB port. It only seems to be when converting to VGA that it happens.
    Last edited by Harrison; 25th November 2016 at 10:23.

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  10. #40
    Deadly Kin Hell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Methanoid View Post
    Thread necromancy.. Anyone know how the monitor copes with Amiga modes BETWEEN 15 and 31KHz like I seem to recall one has a sync around 28KHz? Is this a multisync or a bisync?
    Not sure if this U2410 monitor goes below 31Khz. I can't find anything about it's spec anywhere! - ....about right for Dell-crap.....

    & yes, you are referring to DBLPAL/DBLNTSC @ 27Khz - Multi-Sync Monitor required.

    *edit*

    Found Specs:

    Mon Spec.png

    From here: http://www.qed-productions.com/downl...410_manual.pdf
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