Stupid PC design and thoughtless designers

[Bloodwych]

Some legacy parts of the PC are obviously a bit log in the tooth, (like the 640K ram, serial and printer ports etc) but due to the nature and backwards compatibility of the platform they are a necessity to avoid problems. To be honest, the whole PC platform needs a complete reboot and redesign, but we know that isn't going to happen.

Take for instance PS2 keyboards and mice vs the preferred USB alternatives today. I personally think there is nothing wrong with PS2 devices - they are dedicated interfaces that do the job without any CPU overhead and are fast enough to handle the slow and low bandwidth of a keyboard and a mouse - but they've fallen out of fashion. So be it, as long as it doesn't cause problems. Or will it?

I just went round someones house to help them get their PC back up and running - they have a USB keyboard and mouse. Always bought PS2 myself, as they work and never caused me an issue in 15 years.

Still change is upon us, and these things have been around since Windows 98SE days - surely everything is smooth on both the hardware and software (read Microsoft Windows) side. Went into bios, made sure legacy/DOS support was on for USB mouse and keyboard and began installing from their Windows disk.

Low and behold, the DOS menu part worked, but as soon as Windows entered the blue screen setup phase the keyboard died. Turns out you need an SP2 disk or newer to install a clean Windows installation if you have a USB keyboard or mouse. Oh look, their install CD is an older version....Hmmm.

Great. No problem I have PS2 keyboard at home.....came back and....low and behold, no PS2 connectors on the actual computer. Great. Saving a few pence, some idiot designer has failed to see what rubbing out the "old" PS2 connectors will do because surely no one uses them anymore.

A few hours and a slipstreamed SP2 XP disk burnt on my home PC later, and I eventually get the thing installed!

Right, I'm off to watch the footie....

[toomanymikes]

its things like this that really annoy me. I hate it when someone penny pinches just to save a few quid in the long run but messes up the working of a device in the process. I can bet you whoever made that decision knows nothing about the running setup of a computer.

[Harrison]

Another one that annoys me is when they remove the AGP slots of motherboards. This is common with large PC makers and I've encountered this problem loads of times. A friend hasn't been able to get the display to show anything so I've opened up the case and find the motherboard only has PCI slots. And instead of the AGP slot there is a row of solder holes for where one could go.

[Zetr0]

In the rush for legacy free, the cost will always be more to the consumer.

essentially its a form of forced upgrading that the market not only employs but also relies upon for its end of dollar.

The real winners here are the retail markets that get after sales for re-enable a legacy feature that had been removed..

Like right now on my laptop, i miss my parallel port.... okay, i have usb, firewire, bluetooth... but i could so use my little programmers I have to go into the office to use another PC.... bah...

[Castelle]

Tis the price of "progress" I'm afraid. I always get the impression that Bill Gates looked at the Amiga for inspiration for his Windows platform.

Just as Windows Vista nowadays is a blatant rip off of OSX - When I saw the swirling 'O' in Vista I thought to myself, here we go again. I loathe to use Windows as I always seem to spend more time in getting my work done by "looking after" the OS.

I know because I've used practically every incarnation since 3.1
What I mean is, a popup will inform you of some "critical" update and it MUST be installed now or the world will end and you lose half the day rewriting an essay because Word has suddenly decided that it has performed an illegal operation and must be closed down.

Mac on the other hand is a joy to use, no annoying pop-ups from the task bar. You get your work done and you don't have to reinstall the printer driver because its decided to stop working...

I made the decision to move away from Windows years ago to Mac, I used Linux for many of that time as my wife was still using Windows.

I now have a Vista Laptop with built in wireless networking and I am thinking of removing Vista because I bloody can't stand it !!
I will either partition it and put Linux and Windows XP on or just Linux - I haven't decided yet. I have 4MB (due to be upgraded to 10MB) broadband so I can download a new distro of Mandriva. My old distro is miles out of date - Mandrake 8.2 or something I have...

But looking back guys at the Amiga I still get a thrill using it and the simplicity of using it were a PC is a large ugly box, taking up space, where my Miggy is sitting proudly on my desk and just oozes quality...

Face it guys, Bloodwych hit the nail on the head saying that the PC needs a redesign and a total redesign is needed as it seems to me that we always use the lowest common denominator = Crap vs Quality = your choice at the end of the day but I know who's side I'm on and I don't need "fashion" to dictate to me what computer I choose to use or not use in the case of Windows and PC. I only use it because I HAVE TO.

I think the whole computer industry is on the verge of meltdown as nothing really kickass has really come our way - think about Terminator II - if that was possible, if they could design a chip, a CPU so radically advanced. Only problem is stopping a world war, now that would be the tricky part !!!

Over to you guys...

Castelle

[Harrison]

I disagree regarding Macs. I've used them for years and they crash and freeze as much as PCs do. Even OSX. OK OSX is more stable than MacOS9 was (that used to love freezing up halfway through a complex photoshop or video editing session, and it used to love locking up halfway through loading the extensions as it booted).

With any OS, if it is installed correctly and optimised then it will run fine without too many crashes or lockups (all systems will always crash at some point).

[Castelle]

I disagree regarding Macs. I've used them for years and they crash and freeze as much as PCs do. Even OSX. OK OSX is more stable than MacOS9 was (that used to love freezing up halfway through a complex photoshop or video editing session, and it used to love locking up halfway through loading the extensions as it booted).

Horses for courses I think Harrison,

The computer is a very personal choice for the discerning user. I started using the Mac since Panther... OK OSX has locked up from time to time - a few times when I used Panther, a couple when I used Tiger and absolutely none when I use Leopard. I know what you are saying here Harrison. probably thinking there's always a first time but the OS is so rock steady but is there any reason to doubt Unix can hold its own?

Mac have simply started with a good solid base as in building a house, then built upon that. Windows has too many "bells and whistles" for my taste, making the OS nearly unusable...

Harsh truths but I don't give any bull - I'm 40 at the end of this month and I got "into" them when I was just 16.

I've seen progress from the 8 bit machines to the 64 bit machines and I tell you what, whatever computer you choose to use is what works for you.

As in;
people love Windows
people love Mac
people hate Windows
people hate Mac

etc, etc

My choice is mine, as is yours...

That's the great thing about choice......

[Buleste]

And so it begins.

[Harrison]

Very true.

The OS and hardware we each use definitely comes down to what we each need to use it for, what we like to use the most, and what we feel most comfortable using. As you say, we have a choice because everyone is different and we each have our own likes and dislikes.

Windows, MacOS, Linux etc all perform similar jobs and can be used to get the job done. They just each have their own ways of doing it that some people prefer over the others (ie some don't like the static menu bar constantly at the top of the Mac OS, whereas others hate the Windows start menu). No OS or hardware is perfect but todays OSs are all pretty good.

One thing that can really draw someone to an OS or put them completely off is the first time they use it and the system and setup it was running on. If for example someone used a PC running Windows XP and it was very low spec with not enough ram, a budget graphics card and a badly installed and configured OS then they would get a very bad first experience of the OS, thinking it was very slow and unstable. In contrast if their first experience was using it on a well configured and install system with a lot of resources available they would think it was a very fast and responsive OS that worked well. The same goes for the Mac. I've used Macs that have been very slow and unstable, but equally I've used ones that are nice to use thanks to lots of resources available.

One thing is certain though. No OS will ever beat the heart and soul that lives on in the AmigaOS.

Regarding how long you have been using computers. Most of us here are about the same. Starting out on 8-bit systems and moving on through the generations. I started using computers and video games consoles at a very early age, with the Atari 2600 in the late 70's and using the first BBC Micros and ZX81s, along with friends Spectrum's and C64s. And finally owned my first computer in 1984 with the Amstrad CPC464 when I was 11 years old.

One exception has to be Steve. I think he had an Amiga from birth!

[Castelle]

Very interesting followup thread Harrison,

You certainly know your stuff and that's what makes this forum so interesting as it has like minded people saying their bit and what I do like there is no slagging off other members - which is great IMO.