Poor Alien/Predator Sequels

[Ghost]

Hello all,

As you know, last year Alien VS Predator: Requiem was released in American theatres. I myself didn't really look forwards too it when I heard about the storyline, preferring a plot to take place in the Alien universe instead as portrayed in some of the comics.

It seems the movie is pretty poor received by people who were already turned down by its prequel, it has quite some low ratings on Rotten Tomatoes.
Now I know that Rotten Tomatoes does not speak for everyone but most of the people who dislike the movie at leasted like the original Alien, Aliens, the first Predator and some the second Predator movies, while those defending the movie weren't really raised with the classics.

Perhaps from today's viewpoint the original movies were quite simple while they set some standards in the time they were released, but what I notice is that none of the sequels ever tried to raise the bar any higher, instead trying to copy the formulas of the original, and in the process just lowering to the level of mindless gore.

Yes, I know the original Predator movie was pretty much a slaughter movie but its plot still feels a lot more stronger than the plot in the last two AVP movies in which both creatures were put together just for some mindless fighting made with special effects.

These days I don't watch much movies anymore as quite some of them are commercial monsters which main selling point is the special effects.
I know movie developers don't own the original fans any loyalties but I find it so sad that such iconic creatures are lowered to popcorn entertainment for 13 year olds.

[Buleste]

AVP was awfull. AVP:R will be awfull. Alien 3 was Awfull. so if you group the Alien and Predator films into one then out of 8 films 5 have been good. Thats not too bad a sucess rate. Fair enough only one was a horror film and the others have been action films but still not too bad.

[Ghost]

Hello Buleste

Five out of eight, you consider Alien Resurrection good?

[Harrison]

I actually liked the first AvP and really enjoyed it. Yes it wasn't anything new, but it was enjoyable and fun to watch. I also liked Alien 3 as it introduced the issue of no weapons available and how they over came that. It also contains a scene that I love. The one where they have placed candled on the ground and they start going out one by one. Great.

I've not seen the latest AvP:R yet, but am looking forward to seeing it.

[Ghost]

* sight * Another thing you and I differ in Harrison ,

While I liked parts of the atmosphere of Alien 3, I really did not like how Hicks and Newt had to be killed off.
Just had Ripley alone ejected with the Super facehugger while Hicks and Newt continued on homewards.

As for the first Alien VS Predator, well its an Anderson movie.
I am of the opinion that that man should never work on another movie, let alone game to movie/comic to movie/popular franchise again because he is one stinky director/writer.

[Buleste]

Hello Buleste

Five out of eight, you consider Alien Resurrection good?

When you compair it to Alien3 it's acceptable even if the Ripley return is bloody awfull.

[Harrison]

While I liked parts of the atmosphere of Alien 3, I really did not like how Hicks and Newt had to be killed off.
Just had Ripley alone ejected with the Super facehugger while Hicks and Newt continued on homewards.

I do agree with you there. Having gone through so much with these characters in the previous film, then to twist this and kill two of these character off before the third film has even began is a big kick in the teeth, but that is life! And these films are action/horror after all so killing off the main characters is all part of the twists and surprises of such a film.

There are always aspects of most stories, be it in film or book, that we never like the outcome of, but if we liked the outcome of everything we read or watched then it would all quickly become very predictable and boring.

And killing off Ripley at the end of the film was quite unexpected to fans of the previous two films, so it did work. I think many didn't like the third film because it completely changed the structure of the previous two films. With the Alien keeping Ripley alive due to her implantation, instead of constantly trying to kill her.

In contrast the 4th film really went back to the same style as the second in many ways. Which helped to please many who were disappointed with the third. Lots of guns and violence.

But for me you still can't beat the original Alien. None of the sequels can come close to it's artistic style or tension.

[v85rawdeal]

* sight * Another thing you and I differ in Harrison ,

While I liked parts of the atmosphere of Alien 3, I really did not like how Hicks and Newt had to be killed off.
Just had Ripley alone ejected with the Super facehugger while Hicks and Newt continued on homewards.

As for the first Alien VS Predator, well its an Anderson movie.
I am of the opinion that that man should never work on another movie, let alone game to movie/comic to movie/popular franchise again because he is one stinky director/writer.

The main reason that Hicks and Newt were killed off, is that they were extra baggage that would have seriously weakened what was, and in fact is, pone of the strongest plots of the Aliens series. Another reason that has passed around the net, is because some fans, including myself, consider Aliens to be completely outside the original story arc. Aliens would have worked, with a little tweaking, as the first of the AVP movies, rather than the sequal to 1979's great film. . It was a great movie, but nothing that could not have been done with some other bad guys. If you watch the four movies back to back, unfortunately Aliens sticks out like a sore thumb.

There is too much Cameron in it, seemingly with half the cast from Terminator in there. I am just surprised Arnie wasn't in it... Although he might have played one of the Aliens. BFGs, big nasty beastie at the end, rather poor sequence of Riply holding on for grim death when the sheer speed that the oxygen was being sucked from the Sulaco would have buffetted her off her tenuous hold, espec. if you add in the weight of the queen. And most importantly, the rather strange 57 year drift through the core systems and NOT being picked up. Some great characters killed off so that the limp, lame Hicks can survive (give me Hudson or Vasquez any day) and the usual weak, lily-livered officer who couldn't lick a stamp to save his life.

The main problem with Alien 3 is the fact that the people could not agree with what was wanted, and that Fincher did not even have a script to go with from the beginning. He would shoot sequences that would work so well, only to have execs saying that it wasn't 'Aliens' enough. They cut the Boggs sequence from the theatrical release because it does not fit in the Cameron's vision of the series, but does completely fit in with the official 'Alien' canon. Hell, Starship Troopers (which may very well have been the inspiration for Aliens) fits the Alien canon far better than Aliens.

Alien; Resurrection is a problem, in some ways it has a great story, with an awesome potential for a link to the 5th film. It also has great characters, but it to also suffered from the Aliens-emulation problem. It does have some great characters, namely Johner and Vriess (But those two are a great double act, just watch City of Lost Children).

AVP was okay, not great. Big flaw with the Weyland character having been in two other movies as Bishop & Bishop II. An enjoyable movie, but not the greatest.

I know this seems like I am very defensive of Alien3, but the truth is, I am. I love the movie, and can't see why it is overlooked, except for the fact it followed the OTT Aliens movie.

[Ghost]

Hi v85rawdeal,

Heh, I think some of things you mention you don't like were actually first timers on serious action sc-fi before they become stereotypes such as the weakling commanding officer.

Well I find Aliens more of a fitting sequel as it did not try to copy Alien as much as Alien 3 did.
Yes the theme was different but the concept was essentially the same and it become only more annoying with some of those prisoners.

I can't really speak about the airlock sequence, the writer wanted to add an extra sequence of tension before finishing the story, its neither great or awful.

Well as for the shuttle's drift through space, space is rather big you know

[Harrison]

In contrast I think Alien 3 works because it is close to the original Alien. Something the second film completely failed to do in all regards. It didn't even have a similar feel or artistic style (regardless of the fact H R Geiger was still on board).