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Since I'm thinking about buying a Mac Mini, I'm interested in hearing peoples opinion about the Leopard OS. How does it compare to Windows XP for example? Easy to use and get into? Can it be customized in a variety of ways? Does it take a long time to boot? Does it have any functions Windows doesn't have?
Hope to hear your opinion about Leopard versus Windows. :)
Out of interest, are you referring to a PPC or an Intel Mac Mini? Also, may I ask why you are interested in getting a Mac :ninja:?
Unfortunately I haven't had the opportunity to use Leopard (other than briefly clicking a few buttons in the Apple Store), but I used Tiger and liked it. Back when Leopard was announced, I remember it just seemed to contain some additions to Tiger that I would probably not use, but I'm not saying that they are useless to everyone, as I have come across plenty of people on various forums that like them.
I have always found MacOS X to be a nice operating system, but as I'm sure people here will agree, it isn't as customisable as Windows.
That is very true. You definitely can't customise OSX as much as Windows. And you are forced to work in the way that the designers of the Mac OS wish you to. I've never liked the huge launch pad thing sitting at the bottom of OSX. That bugs me. And I find the fixed menu bar at the top of the screen quite dated. I much prefer Windows way of having the programs menu bar at the top of the program's own window. Makes much more sense.
However, other than differences in how it works. Mac OSX is just as capable of doing pretty much the same tasks as XP or Vista. It just does them differently. So you will either like how it does things, or not. Its like Marmite, you either love it or hate it. ;)
Oh, and the lack of software, games and up to date emulation doesn't help its cause.
But then I bet you knew I was going to say something like that. ;)
I haven't used Leopard, I'm still on Panther. I switched from XP to OS X 5 years ago and I do prefer using it day-to-day. As Harrison said, emulation isn't as good as what you can get for XP, and games are virtually non-existent, but you don't buy OS X for games.
Finder sucks beyond belief - Win Explorer is functionally much better, but there are good alternatives to Finder.
Funnily enough, I hate Windows Task Bar, the Dock is better!
@Cortona
Have you seen the changes to the Windows Task bar with Windows 7? I think it could change your mind. Gone are the little quick launch icons. Replaced with the ability to drag and attach any icons you like to the bar, a bit like the Mac Dock I suppose. And the rest of the bar works a bit differently now too.
OMG, i can't believe that i hear things like "Mac os can do pretty much the same as windows..." when windows is just attempting (badly) to copy what MAC OS offers for like 10 years.
Leopard beats all that windows has when it comes to desktop. Software integration is the key of Mac OS, all seems faded together as 1 software and not that horrible patchwork that windows looks like.
When it comes to customisation, you can go the way you want and are ABSOLUTELY not obliged to work the way the developper of MAC OS want. You can change pretty much all you want and that is, without installing 9951451 third party softwares. You can even disable the dock if you don't like it... To be honest, the evolution of XP to Vista and 7 is just an atempt to copy Leopard, but let's face it, when it comes to design, windows fails.
Sorry, but thisplace needs a bit of MAC love and i'm here to bring it :p
Hi there Stephen,Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen Coates
Thanks for the quick response. I'm referring to the G4 powered Mac Mini. The main reason for wanting one is MorphOS. Having both Mac and MorphOS on one machine looks like a good combination.
Good to know that the difference between Tiger and Leopard isn't that great. That means that if the machine has Tiger pre-installed, it is not a big disadvantage.
---------- Post added at 12:22 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:19 PM ----------
Thanks for the input, Harrison. I'll have a look around to see what the Mac has to offer in the emulation department. As for software and games, I'm happy if it can run Civilization IV (must check this ;)). I know you can on Mac's with Intel, but I'm not sure when it comes to PPC.Quote:
Originally Posted by Harrison
---------- Post added at 12:25 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:22 PM ----------
That sounds great! :) After reading this, I'm more tempted than before. :smokin:Quote:
Originally Posted by my_lo
---------- Post added at 12:28 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:25 PM ----------
Cheers Cor(t)ona! Doesn't seem like the PPC Mac is great when it comes to games, but that's not a big problem. :) Thanks!Quote:
Originally Posted by Cortona
I haven't seen anything of Windows 7 yet. It'll probably take 10 years for the company I work for to upgrade from XP (and IE6). Good to hear drag-and-drop is better supported - I'm a big fan.Quote:
Originally Posted by Harrison
P G, The sum-total of my PPC Mac games collection over the last five years is Starwars Battlefront, Doom 3, Jet Set Willy and oolite. I miss those Might & Magic games on the PC! For emulation, I use E-UAE and Power64 (shareware).
Harrison, what do you mean about Quick launch being gone. I havn't seen Windows 7, but from your description, I get the impression that you can add any icon you want to something which replaces Quick Launch, which is exactly what I can do currently with both Quick Launch and the Dock.
Steve, you need to have a play around with Win 7 the next time you are in a shop, then you will see what I mean. The functionality of the older task bar is still there, but it has now been made much more streamlined and smoother to use. Definitely prefer it.
Apple never copied anyone else's ideas now did they? :whistle:Quote:
OMG, i can't believe that i hear things like "Mac os can do pretty much the same as windows..." when windows is just attempting (badly) to copy what MAC OS offers for like 10 years.
Leopard beats all that windows has when it comes to desktop. Software integration is the key of Mac OS, all seems faded together as 1 software and not that horrible patchwork that windows looks like.
And Apple even ditched their own existing OS with OSX and switched to a free open source NeXT UNIX style OS to finally be able to have a stable OS and multitasking. 2 things the Mac didn't have before.
:lol: It can't do as much because it doesn't have as much software available, fact. And in this I'm referring to emulation and games alongside applications.
I also find Mac OSX very restricted compared to Vista.
You are honestly saying file management using Finder is good?
And software integration is high because most of the only software available on the Mac is made by Apple themselves. You expect integration to be high when made by the same company as the OS.
The Mac also still uses a file structure which no other computer can open or use. Not good in a world where people like to share files.
But, at the end of the day it comes down to one thing. If you own and use a Mac and prefer it, the software it has does what you wish and you find it easier/nicer to use, and you don't need anything that Mac OS doesn't offer, then fair enough. Use it.
All I'm trying to say is that in the wider world, if you are a gaming, like emulation and also like the widest choice of software than the PC is really the old option. The Mac restricts these things too much for me ever to consider it as a direct alternative to the PC. Except Intel Macs are PCs, so everyone is in fact now using PCs anyway... case closed.
Except Intel Macs had low end graphics cards compared to availability on the PC, so even running Vista on an Intel Mac, you won't be able to play the latest games.
I don't tend to go to computer shops. I suppose I could pop in to PC World next week and have a look.Quote:
Steve, you need to have a play around with Win 7 the next time you are in a shop, then you will see what I mean. The functionality of the older task bar is still there, but it has now been made much more streamlined and smoother to use. Definitely prefer it.
Seems to me like everyone is just copying off each other. That includes MS copying Apple, and Apple copying MS :evil:.Quote:
Apple never copied anyone else's ideas now did they?
*sits down and prepares to watch the ClassicAmiga Mac vs PC war v2.0 :coffee:*
Ah! But go back that little bit further and it all began with a little known company at the time called Apple visiting a big innovative company called Xerox, having a go on their very revolutionary new WIMP based OS, then going away and launching their new Mac OS a bit later that looked nearly identical.
It's no secret that Apple ripped off Xerox, or that MS borrowed some of Apple's GUI ideas. Did these giants ever borrow any Amiga GUI concepts?
One thing is for sure: OS X and Windows are converging in terms of user experience and functionality. Which is fine: I'm seriously considering ditching my iMac for a PC laptop. I'm sick of having an obsolete OS that can't even run a modern browser (Safari 2, 3 or 4 for example). I need to upgrade to Tiger or Leopard, but Apple resellers/retailers only sell OS X 10.6, and that is only for Intel Macs. Retail versions of OS X seem to be very rare and highly sought after on eBay (and therefore expensive).
I'm sure the Amiga UI was heavily influenced by Apple's at the time. They also did a lot of things in a very similar way. Look at how icons appear on the desktop when a floppy disk of CD is inserted. This works in very much an identical way on both systems. And actually, when I moved to using PCs this was one part that did really annoy me. I wanted Windows to work like Workbench/Mac OS in this regard, instead of the My Computer window to access devices.
However after some use you get used to it, and it has its own logic, keeping devices all separate and in one location. And since haven't minded either method.
It is true that OSX and Windows are converging in ideas and UI, but then this is going to happen eventually with any products developed in parallel as technologies progress and ways of working logically slowly converge. Will we ever end up with just one single OS all systems are running on? Not any time soon I hope because competition breeds progression, development and innovation. Also server OS's can't be the same as desktop OSs.
Yes, it is. Saying that it is more intuitive than windows explorer is an understatementQuote:
Originally Posted by Harrison
Like the day you said that people had to pay a fortune to change the small keyboard for the one with the numeric pad, you are mistaking. Software integration is present in all softwares for mac OS, including third-party browsers like firefox or fps client like transmit,... Doesn't it make sense that when you design a soft for a specific OS, you want to create a symbiosis between both? Except when it's the OS that exclude it.Quote:
And software integration is high because most of the only software available on the Mac is made by Apple themselves. You expect integration to be high when made by the same company as the OS.
Hum hum, you mean that windows can't use, right?! because my Gentoo netbook has pretty much the same file system. I'm sure you don't wanna start to talk about exclusive and propietary systems when you try to demonstrate some (fictive) opening of windows.Quote:
The Mac also still uses a file structure which no other computer can open or use. Not good in a world where people like to share files.
Thanks for your approuval...Quote:
But, at the end of the day it comes down to one thing. If you own and use a Mac and prefer it, the software it has does what you wish and you find it easier/nicer to use, and you don't need anything that Mac OS doesn't offer, then fair enough. Use it.
Yeah, case-close it, like everytime someone doesn't have the same opinion as you, that it concerns movies (Children of Men,...), Games (Diablo,...) or even OSs. maybe that ClassicAmiga should be renamed "Harrison's world".Quote:
All I'm trying to say is that in the wider world, if you are a gaming, like emulation and also like the widest choice of software than the PC is really the old option. The Mac restricts these things too much for me ever to consider it as a direct alternative to the PC. Except Intel Macs are PCs, so everyone is in fact now using PCs anyway... case closed.
I'm sorry but seriously, sometimes i'm afraid to give an opinion that isn't the same as you, harrison. This was the last time i was coming here, this isn't a forum anymore (and seeing how many emails i received from other readers, i'm not the only one to think this way).
Hmmmm... It is always interesting when people bash others because they have different opinions... You bash Harrison because he has strong opinions and yet due to your own strong opinion you are offended by his... (WTF?)Quote:
Originally Posted by my_loYes, it is. Saying that it is more intuitive than windows explorer is an understatementQuote:
Originally Posted by Harrison
Like the day you said that people had to pay a fortune to change the small keyboard for the one with the numeric pad, you are mistaking. Software integration is present in all softwares for mac OS, including third-party browsers like firefox or fps client like transmit,... Doesn't it make sense that when you design a soft for a specific OS, you want to create a symbiosis between both? Except when it's the OS that exclude it.Quote:
And software integration is high because most of the only software available on the Mac is made by Apple themselves. You expect integration to be high when made by the same company as the OS.
Hum hum, you mean that windows can't use, right?! because my Gentoo netbook has pretty much the same file system. I'm sure you don't wanna start to talk about exclusive and propietary systems when you try to demonstrate some (fictive) opening of windows.Quote:
The Mac also still uses a file structure which no other computer can open or use. Not good in a world where people like to share files.
Thanks for your approuval...Quote:
But, at the end of the day it comes down to one thing. If you own and use a Mac and prefer it, the software it has does what you wish and you find it easier/nicer to use, and you don't need anything that Mac OS doesn't offer, then fair enough. Use it.
Yeah, case-close it, like everytime someone doesn't have the same opinion as you, that it concerns movies (Children of Men,...), Games (Diablo,...) or even OSs. maybe that ClassicAmiga should be renamed "Harrison's world".Quote:
All I'm trying to say is that in the wider world, if you are a gaming, like emulation and also like the widest choice of software than the PC is really the old option. The Mac restricts these things too much for me ever to consider it as a direct alternative to the PC. Except Intel Macs are PCs, so everyone is in fact now using PCs anyway... case closed.
I'm sorry but seriously, sometimes i'm afraid to give an opinion that isn't the same as you, harrison. This was the last time i was coming here, this isn't a forum anymore (and seeing how many emails i received from other readers, i'm not the only one to think this way).
NEWSFLASH: Exchanging opinions is what forums are for... If you want a 100% re-inforcement of your MAC opinions go join a MAC forum... If you want to express your views and possibly receive some different and varying views... Post right here!
My own personal views regarding MAC OS is that it is a great OS and really the only alternative to Windows for mainstream users... (I know Linux is getting better, but still a bit too finicky for the masses... Getting there though) Back to Macs, the OS is gorgeous and it just WORKS... There are a few minor annoyances but that is true about anything worthwhile in life... ALL of the options have their own inherent issues and it is up to us to decide what the priorities are for US...
Back to the original post, Leopard is available for PPC's but it doesn't always install properly on older machines. (Absolutely no rhyme or rhythm either as I have successfully loaded it to a 450MHZ Mac cube and yet a 450 Powermac had issues. I have also installed it on my G5 Powermac and I have had no issues, but I have heard others that have had lockup issues. Go figure)
IMHO there is little in Leopard that makes it stand out from Tiger.. Tiger is mature, works very well, looks good and is stable... For the performance differences I would recommend Tiger and stay away from Leopard unless you have new bleeding edge equipment. (And if it is THAT new, go with Snow Leopard as it will prepare you for future OS and programming enhancements not yet released.):p
BRING THE OPINIONS ON!
Leopards have spots and most people don't like windows when they have spots.
:lol:
And well put outlawal2 :thumbs:
:lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by Buleste
Thanks for the tip on Leopard Outlawal2. I have a 1.6GHz Rev A G5 iMac with 512MB RAM, so I think it might struggle with Leopard!
So a final plea: if anyone sees a retail (black box and discs) version of Tiger for less than £50, please let me know!
I've been in my current team at work for 4 years now. When I started, I'd never used macs - but this team have a big thing for macs, and so I've been using them now for a while. Stand by for a JT INFOBLAST.
The Macs are OS X, I have no idea what version.
They tend to freeze up more than I'd like.
They sure do look nice.
The one button mouse is gay.
White really shows up the dirt.
They have some good things, and some bad things.
They don't really seem much better or worse in day to day use than a PC.
And that, my friends, is the sum total of four years experience. Fear my insight and ability to disseminate the TRUTH.
Would I buy a Mac? Very unlikely. I'm just too used to the PC. Maybe if I wanted a little laptop I'd get one.
I've got an iPhone, though - and it's the bomb diggy.
Great summary JT. :thumbs:
And your points just made me thing of something. The real reason I don't like the Mac is because it is too generic. Some might laugh at that statement, saying the PC is the generic one, but you can build a PC in any case, with any components and OS/software you like. With the Mac you get what Apple put in the white case/box and that is it. The Mac is like a Washing Machine or Microwave, house white goods. A generic home computer for email, the internet and managing your iTunes collection. It is no soul or spark of life. I would recommend one to someone with no computer skills that only wanted to do the essential computing tasks like internet, email, word processing as they need nothing more. No need to get into the nuts and bolts of the system, no need to install games or emulation. For them it is perfect. For everyone else it is boring, bland, and American.
The Mac is the complete opposite of the Amiga.
I'll never get a iPhone. It makes people loose the power of speaking (or typing) in a normal way;).Quote:
Originally Posted by J T
Same here. It removes people's ability to interact in social situations. Instead sitting there playing with their latest "App", and rather than talking to the person sat next to them they have to communicate via the iPhone.
Hmmmmm.. as an AMERICAN I take exception to this statement... And must remind you that the Amiga was designed and built in America. IT IS American... :tease:Quote:
Originally Posted by Harrison
(And just so you don't read too much into it, I am just sayin'!... I am not really worked up about it, but couldn't COMPLETELY let it slide!... LOL) :p
My condolences for you being American. We all have our crosses to bear;).Quote:
Originally Posted by outlawal2Hmmmmm.. as an AMERICAN I take exception to this statement... And must remind you that the Amiga was designed and built in America. IT IS American... :tease:Quote:
Originally Posted by Harrison
(And just so you don't read too much into it, I am just sayin'!... I am not really worked up about it, but couldn't COMPLETELY let it slide!... LOL) :p
Has the Philippines become part of america because I'm fairly sure that's where a lot of them were manufactured.
My condolences for you being American. We all have our crosses to bear;).
Has the Philippines become part of america because I'm fairly sure that's where a lot of them were manufactured.[/QUOTE]
Are baseless, petty insults the standard for this forum?
I was under the impression that this board was a world wide affair and that anyone was welcome. If I was wrong with this assumption, please let me know and I will look for a more suitable forum to frequent.
As for condolences, none are required or wanted. I am quite proud to be an American and since I have not insulted you or anyone on this board I would expect the same treatment back.
Shall we get back to Amiga based conversations and save your petty biases for a more suitable place?... (That being anywhere but here..)
As for the Phillipines, that is a bit ludicrous as nearly ALL goods are manufactured all over the world today and just because a Honda is built in Mexico it doesn't make it a Mexican car... EVERYONE looks to maximize their buying power and one of the ways to do that is by manufacturing where it is cheap to do so...
No, insults aren't the norm here. At least not out of spite. Buleste was just pulling your leg a little, he wasn't being serious (hence the ;) ). We do tend to poke some fun out of one another every now and then. But it's always in good humour. But please, do let people know if you think they cross the line. They should respect that. :)
Don't take it personally mate. It's just a bit of English sarcastic humour. Nothing is meant by it. Just us joking around.
I wouldn't agree about where something is manufactured not being important. The some product manufactured in different countries can have very different reliability rates. Take for example the Amiga. Ones make in Scotland or Germany were renowned for being more reliable than those made in the Philippines.
And taking a more recent example. Blank DVD-R. Verbatim discs made in Japan or Singapore are 100 times higher quality than the same discs made in India.
I thought text messages and what not did that years ago?Quote:
Originally Posted by Harrison
There have been plenty of times I have seen groups of people all messing with mobile telephones.
Another recent example is facebook. All the part time students at college last year always had facebook open on computer screens and were using it to communicate with each other (and presumably their other 300 friends).
300 friends they didn't even know I bet. Why do these people just randomly select people from Facebook or Myspace to try and add as their friends? They don't know them, have never chatted with them about anything, so know nothing about them or if they even have anything in common. Seems very strange to me. Just to get more friends in their profiles. :blink:
No offence was intended I was joking. I apologise if any was caused.Quote:
Originally Posted by outlawal2
No offence was intended I was joking. I apologise if any was caused.[/QUOTE]
Yeah maybe I should apologize for being a bit touchy... Sorry, but hating all things and certainly all PEOPLE american seems to be the sport today and i am getting quite gunshy about it... Hell the worst for it are our own media! I didn't see the little smiley guy for what he was so please forgive my prickliness...
It's the problem when you have one of the largest ground forces in the world and they are heavily deployed in very sensitive areas of the world. The more troops spread around the world will lead to more focus on them and tthis will mean more mistakes made by those troops will be noticed, even though the percentages of mistakes are probably the same as any other countries forces.
The UK is coming under nearly as much hatrid as the US though, with death threats for the whole nation issued by certain banana republics in Africa, and certain religious dictators in the middle east.
It is what happens when those with the ability to help try.
Well said... And a sympathetic point of view to boot. Thx...
Yeah it sounds like you guys get much the same indignation but since all we ever hear is the finger pointing at us I was not really aware that it is quite the same for other countries as well.. Seems the harder folks try to help the more hated they become...
Well let's not turn this into a political thing as we are all here to talk about GOOD things.. Like Amigas...
Anyway, thanks and don't let my initial prickliness scare anyone off from joking around with me. I promise NOT to take things too seriously in the future!
An important thing to remember is that there's a difference between ordinary people and the politics being put into life by the Government. I think Americans in general are very nice people. Those I've met, when I lived there, was always polite, happy to help and friendly. There are of course exceptions, but this was my experience in general.
My point is that the politics and actions taken by the Government doesn't necesseraly reflect the opinions of the people. Even though we have regular elections, promises and expectations have the habit of disappearing into oblivion. ;)
That is very true. Most people draw conclusions about how people are from each country based on what they see and read in the media. Governments or religious groups over power and cloud what the real people in any country are actually like.
A WISE group we have here... :hmmm:Quote:
Originally Posted by P G