Dreamcast

[Harrison]

Are there any other fans of the Sega Dreamcast here?

I've been a big fan of the Dreamcast since it's launch and it remains one of my favourite consoles, even today. It wasn't a commercial success in the eyes of the industry but there is just something special about the system that is hard to explain in words.

The Dreamcast was also the only Sega system I have ever owned. I never owned a Megadrive due to the Amiga, and never bought a Saturn because it was a pale second to the Playstation, but for some reason I was attracted to the Dreamcast at launch and never regretted buying one.

For some reason the games have a unique feel to them that you instantly know are Dreamcast games when you see them running. Maybe it is the unique texture mapping of the hardware that makes the graphics always seem bright and cheerful. I'm not 100% sure.

The controller was also quite unique at the time, with the two analogue triggers offering great control for racing and many other games, the analogue joystick being more precise than that seem on the N64, and the unique two slot VMU memory card system built into the control. With the VMU itself being quite revolutionary at the time offering it's own mini console with screen that offered additional information while connected to the controller, and mini games when disconnected.

And while the Dreamcast may not have ended as a successful system it still enjoyed a lot of great games releases during it's lifetime that unlike recent systems were largely exclusive to the system. This was partly due to the system enjoying it's own mini generation between that of the 32-bit era of the original Playstation, N64 and Saturn, which could not match the technical abilities of the Dreamcast, and that of the next main generation of the PS2, Gamecube and Xbox, which were slightly more powerful but not by much. For this reason it saw many unique games released before the PS2 came out. It was also a platform that saw many unique games that didn't quite fit into a specific genre, or were unique takes on a genre.

It was also the first platform to offer internet access out of the box with its built in modem (and optional Ethernet unit). This made the system the first online console which led so some amazing first generation online games, including the historic Phantasy Star Online and Bomberman Online. Even Quake 3 was released on the system.

And no one can talk abut the Dreamcast without mentioning Shenmue. A series that pushed forward the ideas of what an adventure game was and remains an exception gaming series.

And for anyone who missed the Dreamcast completely at the time, now is a great time to get hold of one to enjoy. They are selling for next to nothing on ebay. £9.99 will get you a system with a few games, and for under £100 you can get a system along with a load of games and extras included.

[Demon Cleaner]

I quite like some games on the DC, as there are some great releases such as Shenmue or Skies of Arcadia. But I cannot consider myself as pure DC fan, as I'm also fan of a lot of other consoles/computers, but I know that the DC is still Oz' favorite console. He's Sonic and Sega addicted.

[Harrison]

I think for me the Dreamcast was the first system that truly showed good 3D was finally possible on a console.

With the first 3D console generation none of the consoles were really powerful enough to handle 3D well. The Saturn was designed for 2D and so fudged 3D by doing a lot of complex 2D scaling and rotation techniques within it's parallel 2D sprite processors, The N64 while having quite a powerful 3D SGi processor, generated much of it's 3D at too low a resolution, and so then did a full screen anti-aliasing effect to hide the low resolution jaggies, leaving the games looking very blurred and fuzzy (giving the impression you were actually watching US TV!) and the playstation while technically OK at generating the 3D, had quite limited texture memory, so a lot of PSX texture mapping looked very blocky and horrible close up. In contrast the Dreamcast finally showed that true anti-aliased clean and bright texture mapping was possible, with smooth framerates.

[v85rawdeal]

I fully agree. I believe that the Dreamcast was the pinnacle of console development during its time and it is just a great shame that it did not get the support that the other consoles got.

The great element with the dreamcast was that it was a 3rd option, although, in reality, it was the PSX that was the real 3rd option, as Sega and Nuntendo were the big boys on the block.

If you look at all the times in the past where there has only been two options available to the public, there has never been that much of a sense to advance. The two sides tend to slip into some sort of status quo that is sustained until something major happens. It becomes a series of tit-for-tat exchanges. (Coke vs Pepsi, Democrat vs Republican, Star Wars vs Star Trek, M1cr050f7 vs the world)

After all, how dull was it when it was just the PS2 and the Gamecube, each with their exclusives and not really having anything to fear from the competition, then in steps Gat3$y with his box-o-tricks and shakes up the whole console scene. I feel that if the Xbox hadn't been introduced, then perhaps we would still be playing on our Gamecubes and PS2s without any concept of a new generation.

I suppose the point of this rambling is that two is good, three is better. It is just a shame when one falls by the wayside (r.i.p. Gizmondo... we miss you (j/k)) but it is even more of a shame when the one that falls by the way is oneof the innovators and one of the most influential and important examples of its kind. The Dreamcast will be one of them, loved and lost, but always remembered.

It's position in history is secured, alongside the Amiga, the Gameboy and the Intellivision.

Maybe, one day, Sega will re-emerge and surprise us all. I look forward to that day.

[AlexJ]

I didn't get a DC at the time because I was holding on for the PS2, but did get a chance to play on one my mate had. I remember the games looked smooth as opposed to textured 3D on the PS1. Was going to buy one on eBay about a year ago but didn't because I don't get enough chance to play on my PS2 at the moment. What's the emulation scene like with the DC?

[Harrison]

Emulating a DC or emulation on the DC?

If you mean emulating a Dreamcast, then it is not good. An emulator called Chankast, version Alpha 0.25, was released a couple of years ago and showed real promise. Able to boot Dreamcast ISO images and CDs, and even run some commercial games partly successfully. But nothing has been mentioned of further development of that emulator since this alpha release so it is probably dead now.

But if you are talking of emulation on the Dreamcast, then a big emulation and homebrew scene appeared for the Dreamcast and many emulators are available that run on it, including Megadrive, SNES and MAME. Not sure if UAE was ever ported though.

[Harrison]

I fully agree. I believe that the Dreamcast was the pinnacle of console development during its time and it is just a great shame that it did not get the support that the other consoles got.

The great element with the dreamcast was that it was a 3rd option, although, in reality, it was the PSX that was the real 3rd option, as Sega and Nuntendo were the big boys on the block.

If you look at all the times in the past where there has only been two options available to the public, there has never been that much of a sense to advance. The two sides tend to slip into some sort of status quo that is sustained until something major happens. It becomes a series of tit-for-tat exchanges. (Coke vs Pepsi, Democrat vs Republican, Star Wars vs Star Trek, M1cr050f7 vs the world)

After all, how dull was it when it was just the PS2 and the Gamecube, each with their exclusives and not really having anything to fear from the competition, then in steps Gat3$y with his box-o-tricks and shakes up the whole console scene. I feel that if the Xbox hadn't been introduced, then perhaps we would still be playing on our Gamecubes and PS2s without any concept of a new generation.

I suppose the point of this rambling is that two is good, three is better. It is just a shame when one falls by the wayside (r.i.p. Gizmondo... we miss you (j/k)) but it is even more of a shame when the one that falls by the way is oneof the innovators and one of the most influential and important examples of its kind. The Dreamcast will be one of them, loved and lost, but always remembered.

It's position in history is secured, alongside the Amiga, the Gameboy and the Intellivision.

Maybe, one day, Sega will re-emerge and surprise us all. I look forward to that day.

I'm not sure about that. The original Xbox didn't sell at all well in Japan which is after all the home market for both Sony and Nintendo. And Sony began development of the PS2 while the PSX was still years from being over. I expect Nintendo were also already working on the Gamecube.

Console manufacturers look at their systems as having roughly a 5 year live span, so begin the development of the next system pretty much as soon as they launch the last one.

And Sega had been in trouble for a very long time before the Dreamcast ever came to market. The Genesis (Megadrive) was a huge success and the best selling home console in many countries, but the Saturn was a huge disaster and Sega made huge losses on it. So there over stretched themselves with the Dreamcast to try and make a comeback. The Dreamcast Hardware was amazing at the time ad far ahead of the other current systems, but Sega had spent big to make the Dreamcast, and unfortunately the launch of the PS2 finished Sega off as they just didn't have anything left to fight back with. Very sad for such an old gaming company with such a huge gaming lineage. At least they accepted they were beaten in the hardware market and instead switched to exclusive games development. And you could tell how bad off they were when the Dreamcast ceased production because for the next couple of years all Sega released were updates and ports of their existing games. Only recently have they managed to start developing new games and beginning to get going again.

[Demon Cleaner]

An emulator called CankastIt's called Chankast and the latest version dates from 2004. And it doesn't support original DC discs (GD-ROMs), only copies.

Another emulator is called DEMUL which is very fast and also very compatible. A lot of games run properly, and it's an alternative to Chankast, as it runs games, Chankast still doesn't. And it also only supports copies so far.

[Harrison]

Thanks for noticing the spelling mistake. ;)

I tried DEMUL when it first came out and gave up after not being able to get anything to run. I will have to give it another go when I get chance.

DC emulators will never be able to run real GC-ROM Dreamcast discs as standard PC CD drives cannot read them, much like Amiga emulation with Amiga disks. Therefore we will always need to either use mounted ISOs or copied CD-R's of the games.

[Submeg]

So do you think that Sega will rise back to prominance? Or will they be stuck forever?

[Demon Cleaner]

In my opinion they'll be stuck forever, but I'd like to see a comeback with a decent console, to relaunch the console wars into a new adventure.

[Submeg]

Yea that would be awesome...have four or five main players, that would be interesting. But pretty sure it would be annoying for anyone who collects consoles :)

[Harrison]

So do you think that Sega will rise back to prominance? Or will they be stuck forever?

Did you know that the first Xbox is the spiritual successor to the Dreamcast?

When Sega stopped hardware development, M$ got them on board to help them with development of the online aspects of the Xbox. The Xbox controller was also heavily inspired by the Dreamcast one.

[Submeg]

Why would Sega do that?! Are they crazy! :blink: who wants more money to go to m$?

[Harrison]

Everyone is running a business and wants to make money. At the time Sega were hard up, with their profit margins in the red. But due to the Dreamcast Sega at the time were the first console manufacturer with experience of actually running a console gaming network.

M$ were convinced that the future of gaming was via co-op online communities and who better to ask at the time for help than the only company who actually had real world experience of setting up and successfully running just that, Sega.

[Sharingan]

Didn't own a Dreamcast myself, but I did get to play it every once in a while over at friends' places. Like AlexJ, I was holding out for the Playstation 2 (which was touted as being 'the best thing since sliced bread'). Didn't have enough dosh back then to get both, so I ended up with just one console in the previous generation.

What I remember fondly are the discussions I've had with Dreamcast fans over on the IGN boards. It seemed to me that Dreamcast fanboys were some of the most rabid there could be, and that rabidness carried over to the Xbox generation. Then again, I never frequented the Dreamcast and Xbox forums, so I don't really know how obnoxious the PS2 fanboys were :thumbs:

[Submeg]

man we are all nice ppl :) lol

[J T]

I have to say that the Dreamcast-phase largely passed me by. I wasn't really good friends with anyone that owned one so never got to play on one other tahn a quick go on demo machines in shops. I played Crazi Taxi and thought it was great - and some penguin-sliding-on-ice racer that was rubbish.

Always was quite interested in Shenmue though, that sounded like it could be fun. Oh, and Radiant Silvergun and Bangai-o too, I suppose (I've heard a lot about them but never got to try them properly). I doubt I'll ever get round to trying one properly.

[Demon Cleaner]

@JT

Just buy one from eBay, as it costs almost nothing, so you have a console, and can also test the games you want.

[J T]

It would be tempting, apart from the fact I'm trying to get rid of junk, not accumulate more things to take up space (I'm not calling the DC junk, but you know what I mean). Also I don't really have time to play many of the modern games I have, let alone previous gen ones I missed.

Although, what is the state of play for 'backups' on the Dreamcast?

:JRflag:

[Demon Cleaner]

Although, what is the state of play for 'backups' on the Dreamcast?
The DC plays backups perfectly or you have to use a boot CD. But the games I have are probably all patched, so that they run just fine, if they're not, you need the boot CD. But they should run without any problems, as there's even no modchip available for DC.

[J T]

Although, what is the state of play for 'backups' on the Dreamcast?
The DC plays backups perfectly or you have to use a boot CD. But the games I have are probably all patched, so that they run just fine, if they're not, you need the boot CD. But they should run without any problems, as there's even no modchip available for DC.

Hmm, makes it a bit more tempting I have to admit, but I'm still fairly unlikely to do it.

[Demon Cleaner]

I think you won't regret, get one, put Shenmue into it, and you won't quit the game for 3 hours straight, promised.

[Harrison]

Very true. Shenmue is a breathtaking game. Also others such as the Crazy Taxi 2, Soul Calibur, Virtua Tennis 2 etc... are all great games on the system.

And yes, the Dreamcast can play CD-R based backups without needing any hardware modifications. Earlier backup releases required the Utopia boot CD to get them running (The Utopia Boot disc is also made by burning a CD so is also free), but most later games releases were made self booting so didn't require a boot disc to work.

The only exception is the very last batch of Dreamcasts which cannot run backup games as standard due to Sega changing the firmware. But they are rare as not many were produced. You can spot them as the label under the system is different.

[Demon Cleaner]

Also others such as the Crazy Taxi 2, Soul Calibur, Virtua Tennis 2 etc... are all great games on the system.You named games that can also be played on a PS2 now.

[Harrison]

True, but all ported from the Dreamcast originals, and in more peoples views were inferior to the original.

OK if you want some "exclusives" here are some great ones I highly recommend:

Shenmue 1 and 2
Skies of Arcadia (although that was also later ported to the Gamecube)
Record of Lodoss War
Phantasy Star Online v2
Sonic Adventure
Outtrigger
HeadHunter
Space Channel 5
MvsC2
Streetfighter Alpha 3
Power Stone 1 and 2
Jet Set Radio
Tech Romancer
Project Justice
Silent Scope
Gunbird 2
Confidential Mission
MSR
Daytona USA 2001
Sega GT
Sega Rally 2
Rush 2049
18 Wheeler
House of the Dead 2
...

And i could go on. :)

[Submeg]

House of the dead, ah the joy of that game :)

[StuKeith]

DC emulators will never be able to run real GC-ROM Dreamcast discs as standard PC CD drives cannot read them, much like Amiga emulation with Amiga disks. Therefore we will always need to either use mounted ISOs or copied CD-R's of the games.


So how were the games copied in the 1st place?

Another great thing about the DC was that you didnt need to chip it to play copied games. I used to have a divx player for it. the only trouble I had was at the time I only had a 50hz TV and the dogthing boot disc was 60hz only.

[Harrison]

So how were the games copied in the 1st place?

They used the modem in the Dreamcast to connect it to a PC. They then used a specially written utility that made it possible to dump an image a the Dreamcast GD-Rom from the Dreamcast drive to the PC. Then once they had an image of the disc they had to hack it to reduce it in size from the 1GB GD-Rom size, down to a size that would fit onto a CD-R. They did this by removing any files that were not essential and compressing video and audio more. And finally with later releases, they patched the disc images to make them autoboot from CD-R.

[J T]

Going through the modem would've been terribly slow wouldn't it? But then I suppose it only needs to be done the once.

[Harrison]

Yes, very slow, especially as the modem in most UK and US DCs was only a 33K one! Only the Japanese version has a 56K modem. There was an Ethernet adaptor available for the DC, but it was quite rare and expensive, but I expect some groups had access to these too, speeding up the process by a lot.

[Shaun1984]

The Dreamcast is my favourite console of all time, I have over 40 odd games for it - since it's death, games have been so easy to pick up cheap.


Best games being:

Sonic Adventure
Toy Commander
Shenmue (I & II)

*Tin hat on*

Walt Disney Magical Racing Tour :blink:

I'm not kidding, this was a huge surprise to me, a real good pick up and play game, a bit like Mario Kart.

[Demon Cleaner]

Not to talk about Skies of Arcadia, excellent RPG :thumbs:

[Harrison]

For me the Dreamcast contains something special much like the Amiga. They are both systems that you play and enjoy, but also give you a sense of the passion that was put into their creation. Something you don't get from many systems.

[Shaun1984]

For me the Dreamcast contains something special much like the Amiga. They are both systems that you play and enjoy, but also give you a sense of the passion that was put into their creation. Something you don't get from many systems.



So true.

[Loftus]

For me the Dreamcast contains something special much like the Amiga. They are both systems that you play and enjoy, but also give you a sense of the passion that was put into their creation. Something you don't get from many systems.

Yep, that really somes it up. The Dreamcast is another system I keep coming back to! Brilliant original games that blew my mind when they first came out! Remember the first time you played Soul Calibur!!!!:rolleyes: Those were the days!

Not to mention Shenmue - A masterpiece! I really hope they make #3 but i doubt it's commercially viable after the aparant huge costs and mediocre sales of the last two.

And since i found out it boots CDRs...well...:nogood:

:shhh:

:whistle:

[Harrison]

Talking about Shenmue, did you know that Sega did actually make a kind of sequel to the Shenmue series? Called Yakuza. Not sure if the first of these games was released in the west, but Yakuza 2 has just been released in the UK for the PS2 (2 years after its original Japan release).

I've not yet had chance to play Yakuza 2 but do have a copy of the game. Edge gave it a good review so that can't be a bad thing.

[Demon Cleaner]

I played Yakuza on the PS2, decent game, a bit tedious, seems that the sequel is a bit better. I have it, but never got the time to test it yet. Shenmue hass by far the better game experience.

[Harrison]

That is true. Shenmue's plot and story were very intriguing and drew you in, plus the side games, collectibles and side quests all felt like they were somehow linked into the main game. But with Yakuza the same additional content feels like it is just added because it can be, and not because it is in any way a part of the game. The main story and gameplay are good though.

[Loftus]

There are some good homebrews and emus on the dreamcast as well - which is another reason i keep going back to it.

A good site i use is snesorama.us Some of the stuff i have found on there i would never have thought you could do on a DC. Although emulation isnt perfect with some systems it feels better than playing old games on a PC (nice big tv and a brilliant controller!)

come to think of it i wonder what the situation of emulating an amiga on it is, if any!?