Pc in Amiga A1200 - started !!!

[Tiago]

Hi, as i told you in other topic i would convert a laptop to An Amiga 1200 case.
So i started this weekend.

Laptop is a Dell 630, that a friend gave me. I open it, and remove the board... laptops are not so easy to open... we must be very carefull.
I had a spare A1200 case so... here we go:

Problems so far:
- fan must be placed exactly as it were inside laptop, 2 milimeters out of place and the board shuts down with cooling problems.

- as i get the board out of laptop, i notice it is to big for the A1200 case, i will have to cut a bit of keyboad and metal bellow to get some space, and also have to remove the board battery connector as i will not need it.

- power on button is in the laptop keyboard, how can i remove it from the keyboard???? I guess i can put a switch from the wires...


Here is a big photo of work so far, hope you understand:

http://www.lobodias.com/Commodore_Amiga/images/PC2AMIGA/proj%20-%20work%20-%20PC2AMIGA.jpg

Help about the button is much apreciated !

[Harrison]

For the button you would need to multimeter and try to trace the buttons connections back into the connector.

Have you also checked to see if the motherboard will boot without the laptop keyboard connected? My wife's wouldn't when her keyboard went wrong. Could be a problem if it doesn't.

[Tiago]

Have you also checked to see if the motherboard will boot without the laptop keyboard connected?
The button on/off is on the keyboard, so if i remove the keyboard, how i would turn it on? I dont have other button for the same funtion.
Desktop keyboards have an average of 27 pins in a small circuit. To make a keypress you need to close circuit in 2 or 3 pins, like if you want the key "A" you would close pin x and pin Y and he will do the "G" key, the same with the others, some special keys, like Alt+tab would need multiple pins....
I dont now in this case of a laptop keyboard if it's the same procedure... i could cut the keyboard wire, and test with a single wire, to close these circuits to see if any would make the "on/off"

[Harrison]

Is the keyboard connected via a cable or flat ribbon connector like the A1200 has? Most laptops I've seen have these plastic flat connectors and it makes it really hard to do anything with them. Steve will testify to the nightmare he had trying to repair one of these.

That is the problem using laptop components as they are heavily modified and integrated to fit them all into the laptop case.

It's also annoying about your overheating issue. I suspect the cooling was designed with the motherboard and laptop case together, so that the 2 combined channelled the air around the system exactly as it was needed. Removing the casing probably upset this design.

[Tiago]

Yes it's a flat ribbon cable like the A1200,
check the photo of it:
http://www.lobodias.com/Commodore_Am...20PC2AMIGA.jpg


It's also annoying about your overheating issue. I suspect the cooling was designed with the motherboard and laptop case together, so that the 2 combined channelled the air around the system exactly as it was needed. Removing the casing probably upset this design.

Well yes i guess, but after placing the fan exactly in the correct position, it worked fine, for more then 1 hour.
now, i need to know, if i can put a on/off switch in that ribbon cable

[Harrison]

Could be hard with that type of connector then. Maybe instead of trying to modify the keyboard/cable you could try to access the right connections from the motherboard end of the keyboard connector?

[Tiago]

Yes, i would work the same way... i hope!! my problem is if it's a 2 or 3 pin connection...
i know there are people that hack PC keyboards for flight simulators, they put switchs instead of Keys, they open the keyboard, and do combinations from the circuit inside, conecting the pins make the keys work, so they put switchs instead of keys. usually 2 pins connected will do a Key... but some function keys culd go to 3 pin contact.... i cannot test all combinations to find the power on/off .... and i could not find a manual about it...

[Tiago]

DONE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
the on/off is a combination of 2 pins. I opened the metal case of laptop keyboad, and look for the traces of the on/off button, i follow them they passed from 1 top layer to 1 bottom layer and then to ribbon cable, i tested with a multimeter, and the power flow when i press the button, the multimeter gave me signal. So, now that i now witch pins do the power on/off i can now remove the keyboard and use a on/off switch to power it on. Must now order the Keyrah adaptar.

[Harrison]

Cool.

[Tiago]

today i also look for F12 pins. I think i will put an external button for F12, since Keyrah/A1200 keyboard dont have F12...
I also want to start with a small VGA cable extension, to extend video signal from laptop board to A1200 port. I only need about 20 centimeters. I have the male and female connectors and also a VGA cable with 15 wires inside, but i think i dont need all of the 15 wires... anyone knows whitch pins i need? and do i need to solder anything to the outside of d connector?

[Tiago]

Is there a way to change de F12 key in winuae? If not i will have to put a external button for F12 since with keyrah i will only have F1 to F10...

[Harrison]

Not sure about that, and it wasn't something I had considered, but it is a very good point as the Amiga keyboard doesn't have F11 or F12 keys.

[Tiago]

I think an external button would be nice... since i need 1 for on/off, i could have 2...

[Harrison]

I've not personally used a Keyrar but I'm wondering if it has some sort of emulation support for missing keys, such as multiple keyboard keys to emulate a certain keypress?

[Tiago]

i dont know, but they dont talk about software for it, it's just hardware. Anyway, F12 in a button will be cool....

[Harrison]

If it had such a function it would not be software, but instead programmed into the keyboard controller chip on the keyrar itself.

[Tiago]

I got the Keyrah for the A1200 this week from Amigakit.com, didnt test it yet. It has 2 modes for keyboard, but i need to read the manual again, looks like you can put F12 in other key....
This next weekend i will have a lot of work, i start to solder the vga cable, need to finnish that, and i also need to solder another usb.
I will take some photos and put them here, so you can see the progress.

[Harrison]

Great. Look forward to seeing how you get on.

As you know I've been interested in doing something very similar, putting a PC inside of an A1200 as I had a spare A1200 case here. I also have a spare A600 case and keyboard and was thinking that could make a very interesting mini-PC too as it is so small. I think I would go the route of a mini-itx motherboard instead of a laptop one because they run a lot cooler and most are passively cooled too. I do also think they using a SSD would be good to again reduce heat and remove any noise. It should actually be possible to create a completely silent PC this way these days. The only moving parts would need to be a CD/DVD drive if one was included. For this I have some spare laptop DVD drives which could be utilised nicely inside Amiga cases. :)

I was also thinking that you wouldn't actually need that much storage on the system itself as all rom sets could hosted on another networked PC, or a NAS, you depending on the OS being used you would only need about 20-30GB max for XP or 200GB for Win7. Or explore the cut down custom XP builds to make an even smaller one. It might be possible to utilise a CF or SD to IDE interface that way, but I think the limited speed of memory cards (unless you buy expensive ones) would negate their use for a PC.

So many options and possibilities for these projects. :)

I had an idea for a blog on the forums. Exploring conceptual system building. Not actually building them, but just exploring what we could achieve with available technology. What do you think? Could be an interesting "think tank".

[Tiago]

So many options and possibilities for these projects
So true, for now i will use the 2.5 HD, but i think i will try a compact-flash or sdcard, but i guess i will have a slower machine. Let's see.
I will take more photos of the project on saturday, i am looking forward to test the keyrah.


I had an idea for a blog on the forums. Exploring conceptual system building. Not actually building them, but just exploring what we could achieve with available technology. What do you think? Could be an interesting "think tank".
why not?

[Tiago]

Ok, here are the photos of the project so far:

Pc in Amiga 1200 case

The laptop:
https://picasaweb.google.com/102563872250501158835/PCToAmiga?authkey=Gv1sRgCLarm8yRkbaHZw#5674234186375171074

Inside the laptop:
https://picasaweb.google.com/102563872250501158835/PCToAmiga?authkey=Gv1sRgCLarm8yRkbaHZw#5674234244506474098

The laptop Mother Board:
https://picasaweb.google.com/102563872250501158835/PCToAmiga?authkey=Gv1sRgCLarm8yRkbaHZw#5674234516526621154

The A1200 case:
https://picasaweb.google.com/102563872250501158835/PCToAmiga?authkey=Gv1sRgCLarm8yRkbaHZw#5674233702752576610

Getting space on the case (cutting some plastic)
https://picasaweb.google.com/102563872250501158835/PCToAmiga?authkey=Gv1sRgCLarm8yRkbaHZw#5674234160185073378
https://picasaweb.google.com/102563872250501158835/PCToAmiga?authkey=Gv1sRgCLarm8yRkbaHZw#5674234196627151746

notive the keyboard was cuted, i need the space to put the laptop m.board
https://picasaweb.google.com/102563872250501158835/PCToAmiga?authkey=Gv1sRgCLarm8yRkbaHZw#5674234377110221218

USB extensions
https://picasaweb.google.com/102563872250501158835/PCToAmiga?authkey=Gv1sRgCLarm8yRkbaHZw#5674234663968327506

VGA extension
https://picasaweb.google.com/102563872250501158835/PCToAmiga?authkey=Gv1sRgCLarm8yRkbaHZw#5674234727214242578
https://picasaweb.google.com/102563872250501158835/PCToAmiga?authkey=Gv1sRgCLarm8yRkbaHZw#5674234700036410818

First test with mother board out of laptop, keyboad still needed, because the power on/off button is the keyboad
https://picasaweb.google.com/102563872250501158835/PCToAmiga?authkey=Gv1sRgCLarm8yRkbaHZw#5674234422700006818

trying to locate the pins of power button on/off with a multimeter. pins 2 and 8 from right to left
also tracking where was the F12... pins 2 + 22 from left to right
to test is simple, just put a wire from 1 pin to another
https://picasaweb.google.com/102563872250501158835/PCToAmiga?authkey=Gv1sRgCLarm8yRkbaHZw#5674234355801641762

setting the ports on the back
https://picasaweb.google.com/102563872250501158835/PCToAmiga?authkey=Gv1sRgCLarm8yRkbaHZw#5674234559888965618

firts ports vga on right and 2 DB9 on left, but they are not fixed in place yet
https://picasaweb.google.com/102563872250501158835/PCToAmiga?authkey=Gv1sRgCLarm8yRkbaHZw#5674234619183825042

The Keyrah A1200 adapter front
https://picasaweb.google.com/102563872250501158835/PCToAmiga?authkey=Gv1sRgCLarm8yRkbaHZw#5674234429135854994

The Keyrah A1200 adapter back
https://picasaweb.google.com/102563872250501158835/PCToAmiga?authkey=Gv1sRgCLarm8yRkbaHZw#5674234464280190242

As you can see there is no space for the M.board, so far
https://picasaweb.google.com/102563872250501158835/PCToAmiga?authkey=Gv1sRgCLarm8yRkbaHZw#5674234470907873714

i will put it up side down, and with a bit rotation the the left
https://picasaweb.google.com/102563872250501158835/PCToAmiga?authkey=Gv1sRgCLarm8yRkbaHZw#5674234471309723842

That's it for today :)

[Andrew1971]

Tiago how are getting on with is project have you got any further with it ??
As i am tempted to have a go at something like this :)
Many Thanks
Andrew1971

[Tiago]

well, i stoped a bit, because my iron solder broke up, i need a new one. I almost have every components that i need, except the iron solder.
I will try to give it a boost this weekend.

[Andrew1971]

Tiago dont forget to take some photos with some close ups. And how its going to laid out in the case approx.
Hope i am not asking for much:) Thats when you have the time.
Many Thanks
Andrew1971

[Tiago]

Yes yes, i am taking photos of it.
Are you thinking in doing something similar? with a laptop mboard?
You do need to mesure the size of it, my mboard is going to fit inside upside down with a strange angle... the only way possible.
Do you have a keyrah?

[Andrew1971]

No keyrah at the moment just took out laptop mboard last night it came from a time laptop called collosus big thing small ish mboard.
I'll see if my camera is any good on me phone for pictures.
Many Thanks
Andrew1971

Update
motherboard is 10.5 inch by 8.5 inch
plus a small board that plugs in to give 4 usb a ps/2 mouse and power socket that should able to go any where on an extenstion leads
That's whats going in hopefully:)

[Tiago]

That looks very small...
ha, i would like one as small as that one... mine is huge...
what about the power on button? Is it a button? switch? Or you do the power on button by the leybboard like mine?
what amiga case are you thinking?

[Andrew1971]

Tiago the power button is on the mboard (iam sure thats what it is) not on keyboard
Well considering my A1200 case as iam using the A600. In the next few days i will be testing the board to make sure it still works. Your mboard does look big.
Many Thanks
Andrew1971

[Tiago]

if it is on mboard, then just solder 2 wires to a simple on/off switch. And bring the switch to outside the case. the composite hole could be a good. I found onw switch that has exactly the same size as that hole.

[Andrew1971]

I will be using alot of the stuff i already have. I will have to buy some stuff though trying to make it a buget build. So now on hunt for bits i've got see what turns up.
But still going to test first.:) i'll be testing using a usb stick with pupy linux, no HDD or Cdrom it better work:)
Many Thanks
Andrew1971

[Harrison]

Oh, all the talk really is enticing me to do the same. However, rather than a laptop motherboard I've been wanting to utilise a mini-itx board with a dual core atom or maybe the faster ones now available with Core 2 sockets. Would be great.

Also this project is one I could actually see a Catweasel being useful, as a PC floppy could be founded in the A1200's floppy bay and connected up, so real Amiga, other system, and PC disks could be read.

Are you both going to wire up the A1200's LEDs for Power and HDD access? Would really finish it off. :)

[Andrew1971]

Are you both going to wire up the A1200's LEDs for Power and HDD access? Would really finish it off. :)

Err have not got that far yet but i think it should be doable on my board have to check.
Harrison havent you mentioned this before in another thread ?
Yes if not for funds i would that me self. A dual core amiga that would be just awsome:)

[Harrison]

Yes, I've had the idea to do it for quite some time and have mentioned it in the past a number of times.

I've always left it hoping I will instead get hold of a donor system I can use. I also currently don't have a spare A1200 case and keyboard, although I do have a spare A600 case and keyboard, so could actually use that to make a really nice and small retro emulation PC. Hmm...

[Andrew1971]

Harrison yes use the spare A600 case dont take apart a working system. As i am still unsure to use my A1200 it's to good to hack about with it.
Yeah a nice little emulation machine housed in A600 even better. Running windows 7 ultimate 32 or 64 hmm
Many Thanks
Andrew1971

[Tiago]

the mini-itx should fit in A600 case.
Come on Harison, i would like to see your project, you talked about it before.
About the lights, yes, i will use the wires from A1200.

[Andrew1971]

Hi All
Well i tested the mboard and it didnt work. Now i know why it went in to tha attic. For parts as i had it for about 4 years.:(
Next plan is possibly Amiga on a PC. Now which pc to try it with ?? Hmm

[Tiago]

Amiga on PC?
Put an amiga board in a Pc case?

[Andrew1971]

No Amiga on a pc done by emulation so it boots striaght into win-uae fingers crossed:)
Many Thanks
Andrew1971

[Harrison]

There are easier solutions. One is Amiga Forever as it includes a Linux distribution which boots directly into the Amiga OS.

Another alternative is AROS which is a ported Amiga OS and has been in development for years.

Personally I would run Windows 7 (can be roughly the same speed as XP on many systems as long as there is enough ram) and have WinUAE running ClassicWB 3.9. Gives a very nice environment, and under emulation is much faster than you could even dream of on a real Amiga, even an 060.

[Andrew1971]

Hi Harrison
Just managed to get ClassicWB 3.9 running + yes it does give it a modern feel to it. so far its on 030 with lot's of memory. I cant get it to 060 at the moment just keep getting error's + not sure
how to configure to 060 + run so many settings to try. Going to try on me pc next thats got more grunt to it.
Many Thanks
Andrew1971

[Tiago]

Hi, i did some more stuff in this project,
here is a movie about it.
I need to solder some more stuff, prepare the case so i can get all inside it.
It's in Portugues, but you can see it anyway :-)
you can see the keyrah with a competition pro joystick,
1 button for power on connected into the laptop keyboarb slot
1 button for F12 connected into the laptop keyboarb slot
cheers

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=WwkTEznAYAQ

[Harrison]

Nice. You have done loads of work on that. Have you fitted it into the case since the video? Would be great to see it once completely finished.

Making me tempted again...

[Tiago]

Not yet, i need to solder some more cables... i hope next weekend to start puttting everything inside

[Tiago]

Some more pictures:
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/--MXv-zRsbr8/T3CiEPNIr8I/AAAAAAAABb8/N4uV115al7E/s640/2012-03-26%252017.40.22.jpg
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-Lglbp7FXD4s/T3CiEIeWXPI/AAAAAAAABcA/N3SEJaEWgf0/s640/2012-03-26%252017.40.45.jpg
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-DjN-SYid5uY/T3CiFYzAfVI/AAAAAAAABcU/yCISocZCtM0/s640/2012-03-26%252017.49.08.jpg

[Andrew1971]

Good going Tiago you will soon be there. One colour wiring i remember the when i rewired a honda cg125 all in black but it worked much to my surprise to :lol:
Keep up the good work.
Many Thanks
Andrew

[Tiago]

One more photo of the project:

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-QWN4y_f03No/T5hVWNkA5PI/AAAAAAAABiU/JiGeR6CBZ6E/s640/2012-04-25%252020.26.23.jpg

I now have:
- power on/off button and F12 button in place
- DB9 ports in place
- VGA port in place
- RCA audios in place
- power plug in place
- USBs in place
must wait now for the sata cable for the HD.

[Harrison]

Nice neat port layout. Are you happy with how it is going? Anything you wished you had done differently?

[Tiago]

well, so far everything went as more or less as planned. The USB ports were more difficult then i aspected.
maybe i could have thought about the in a pcmcia extention.... the mother board has one, but it will be far from the original port of the case, maybe i can make some extentin... it's just a question of soldering a lot of wires.