Replace HD with CompactFlash memorycard

[Teho]

Anyone else tried this? All you need is an IDE44 to CF adapter such as this one (http://www.papyrus.co.il/Products/ide44_cf_bridge_connector_mode.htm), and a CF (CompactFlash) memorycard, and you can use it as a HD in your Amiga.

I'd at least never heard of this solution, and was really surprised when I came across an auction on the norwegian auction site QXL, offering an adapter and a 1GB card. The guy offered this specifically for Amigas, he'd even preinstall the correct workbench for you based on whether you have a 600 or a 1200. I did some searching on the net, but I couldn't find much information at all about anyone actually trying this. But the bids were low, and the HD in my 600 has been on it's last legs for quite a while, so I figured what the hell.

And some bids and a woohoo later, I've now recieved this and tested it in my 600. And it really works like a charm. I have to say this is really an excellent solution, it's completely silent of course, being just a chip. And while the card I got isn't lightning fast, it is a lot faster compared to the old HD. And it's not an expensive solution either, the sites I've found that sells the adapter lists it at $20-25 USD. Didn't see a UK site that sells one but I didn't look that hard, you can probably find one. And memorycards aren't expensive either, here you can get a 4GB one at around £30. Definitely the solution for future Amiga HD purchases if you ask me.

[Harrison]

That is very interesting. Using flash memory instead of an HD has been gaining interest on the PC for a few years now, and some manufacturers are now making special cards for servers that can hold 4GB+ for very fast Linux booting and operation.

I haven't however thought of using this method on an Amiga, and as you say, it is quite a good solution, especially as you verify it works. :)

[Puni/Void]

Cool, Teho! Do you know if this guy has any more of those for sale? I would be interested in buying it in Norway.

[Submeg]

That is quite awesome. The perfect example of emulation lol

[Teho]

I haven't however thought of using this method on an Amiga, and as you say, it is quite a good solution, especially as you verify it works. :)

I tested it some more yesterday, as I noticed the guy I bought it from had also put some WHDLoad games on it. I ran into problems trying to run those, but I think I was just running out of memory. Of the ones I tried, The Superfrog intro got halfway and then crashed, the main Superfrog flat out stated 'not enough memory' and didn't run, Cannon Fodder hung while loading the second mission, Buggy Boy (heh) hung almost immediately while loading, Project-X worked.

So I want to test it some more to see if this is actually a stable solution. Will move some files onto it and basically use it for a bit and see how it runs.

Another thing is that this is a little more expensive than getting an actual 4GB HD, if you can find one. I said Flash cards were cheap, but on closer inspection the cheap ones are also the really slow ones. Faster cards are more expensive. Then again, there's no point in getting a card that's faster than what the Amiga can handle, and according to Wikipedia the ATA controller in the Amigas supports PIO Mode 2, which means around 8MB/s. The more expensive cards are way faster than that, while the cheaper ones are down in the 6-10MB/s range.

The one I got is one of the faster ones, I wonder if that could be causing instability?


Do you know if this guy has any more of those for sale? I would be interested in buying it in Norway.

No idea. I checked if he had other auctions on QXL and he doesn't. I guess I could e-mail him and ask, maybe also ask where he got them.

I looked on Komplett.no, and they're selling a different type (http://www.komplett.no/k/ki.asp?sku=317198&view=links) of the card there. It isn't the right one, that one is for IDE40 ports and the Amiga uses IDE44. But if they have that one, they can probably get the other one too if you contact them. Or there may be some other place in Norway that sells them if you look around.

[Stephen Coates]

I wanted to do this, but decided that as I already had a working HD I might as well use that.

Someone on amiga.org posted about compact flash cards a while ago and said that it worked but you can have some problems.

CF cards are definately good. I installed MacOS 7 on one and used it in my PowerBook 1400 and it worked really quickly. Only real problem was that it was a 32MB card so had only enough room for a basic install of OS7 and ClarisWorks.

[Harrison]

32MB :lol: So a retro card for a retro OS! ;)

[Submeg]

lol, perfect logic there....

[TiredOfLife]

ATA has upto PIO5 mode.
Don't see the point as flash cards only go up to 4gig at the mo.
HDs are cheaper, faster and have a bigger capacity.
There do seem to be a few people around using this method though.

[Submeg]

But for am Amiga, not based as your main PC, how big of a harddrive would you need?

[Teho]

OS3.1 and lower amigas can't use more than 4GB anyway. Plus, I saw 8GB cards when searching the net for info on them. And in my experience, this card isn't slower than the HD I used previously. But that was a very old thing, newer HDs may be faster I don't know. But, I hear newer HDs run very hot in an Amiga's cramped casing. That won't be a problem with a flash card. Also, it uses much less power than a HD, so is good for a system where power is in short supply.

The real problem with CF cards I've learned is the fact that they have limited read/write cycles. So their lifespan is relatively short compared to a good HD, depending on how you use it. They wouldn't be good to run an OS off of for example, especially if the machine sees a lot of use. But for just throwing your games, demos, mods etc collection on, it would be great. And for a guy like me who doesn't use the real amiga that often any more, having one as a main HD will work just fine for a long while apparently.

[TiredOfLife]

@Submeg
What do you mean?
How can the Amiga not be your main machine?
I suppose in that totally bizarre and unlikely situation, 4gig would be fine.


@Teho
Some flash cards are guaranteed for life, so I don't think that would be a problem.
OS3.0 can use drives bigger than 4gig, if using the right software or hardware.
Had a hd in a case for years with no heat problems.

[Stephen Coates]

The amiga is currently not my main machine, and as a result, it is fine with 1.5GB. Although I havn't been able to put much stuff on it due to lack of a CDROM drive and the awkward location that it is in.

I'll probably put my 20GB laptop HD in it though sometime.

[Harrison]

Don't see the point as flash cards only go up to 4gig at the mo. HDs are cheaper, faster and have a bigger capacity.

You can find CF cards up to 16GB easily these days, and I know of 32GB ones used in pro cameras and I'm sure you can get 48GB ones too from specialist places. Maybe even larger ones are available now.

I agree that HDs are bigger capacity for less money, but faster? The point of using solid state storage instead of a moving mechanism is that it has no moving parts so no seek times, making the data reading and writing much faster overall.

[Harrison]

OS3.1 and lower amigas can't use more than 4GB anyway. Plus, I saw 8GB cards when searching the net for info on them. And in my experience, this card isn't slower than the HD I used previously. But that was a very old thing, newer HDs may be faster I don't know. But, I hear newer HDs run very hot in an Amiga's cramped casing. That won't be a problem with a flash card. Also, it uses much less power than a HD, so is good for a system where power is in short supply.

The real problem with CF cards I've learned is the fact that they have limited read/write cycles. So their lifespan is relatively short compared to a good HD, depending on how you use it.

I hadn't thought of that. This used to be very true with memory cards only being good for a couple thousand read/write operations, but I don't think it is the case these days. After all people are using SD and Sony MS cards for MP3 players all the time and deleting and copying different songs without any issues. Also many cards have very long guarantees. For Example Sony Memory Sticks are under guarantee for 5 years and lifetime guarantee against defects.



OS3.0 can use drives bigger than 4gig, if using the right software or hardware.
Had a hd in a case for years with no heat problems.

If you use a third party file system then yes, you can use a drive larger than 4GB.

I've run a 3.5" HD in one of my A1200's for many years without any heat related problems at all.

[Submeg]

Huh? I couldnt run the Amiga as my main comp....it just cant do what I need it to do, and yes with fiddling I could, but right now dont have time to fiddle

[Stephen Coates]

The amiga will do most of the stuff I want it to do, but just alot slower than the PC. Although some tasks won't be that slow. e.g. I can do word processing and drawing quite nicely on my A500+ (The 500+ is still my first choice of machine for the rare occasion that I would want to draw something on a computer).

And OS3.9 is a very nice OS compared to WinXP.

[Harrison]

The PPC Amiga's are more than fast enough to do anything currently possible on a computer, but they are held back by a lack of true software support. Yes you can get utilities and applications to do pretty much everything you want, but as Submeg mentioned, you do need to spend a lot more time with an Amiga these days "fiddling" to get the desired system setup to do everything required.

I would still be using an Amiga as my main OS if it had still been in development, and I bet most others here would be too. I just need so many applications and utilities which are further developed and better supported on the PC these days. And also as I am a gamer I need the PC for the best Emulation and Gaming support on any current computer system.

[TiredOfLife]

To be honest, it's the fiddling about I enjoy but I know what you both mean.
As you say there are plenty of apps but a lot more commercial apps on the PC which usually give you that bit of extra polish that can smooth things along.
Using a Blizzard 1260 at the moment.
Great for most things but there are times when I could do with the extra power of a PPC.
I'm hoping I won't have to wait much longer.

[Harrison]

I think all of us who still have Amigas still use them mainly because we enjoy fiddling around with them. That was always half the fun even back in the 80's and 90's, buying new hardware and hooking it up and then playing around to see what it could do. It's exactly the same for me with PCs, but they don't quite have that special charm of the Amiga.

[Submeg]

Not to mention they should be better for what we pay for them

[Raffaz]

Hi, im new here:)

I'm very interested in using CF cards to replace my HDD. Ive found some good info here, it goes into alot of detail and problems etc, so it may be of use to some of you guys.:)
http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=25274

[TiredOfLife]

Nice one, will have a proper look at that later.
Welcome to the site.

[Harrison]

Welcome Raffaz.

I've also been interested in trying a flash card replacement for an HD in an Amiga. Would definitely be interesting to see how well it works. Would also then be possible to create a completely silent Amiga. :)

[Submeg]

...Would also then be possible to create a completely silent Amiga. :)

:o No no no! What is the world coming to? That would be like having a silent cement mixer....it just wouldn't be right!!:unsure:

[Demon Cleaner]

Welcome Raffaz. An Amiga should never be silent, but then again, I also wait for the new IDE64 v.4 expansion card to be released, you connect it to your C64, and then you can add up to 2 HDDs (max. 10GB) and one optical drive. With the right software you can so use the HDDs and don't need a floppy again, and that means, no floppy rattling :(

[Harrison]

You must admit that the constant ticking sound an empty Amiga drive makes gets very annoying? The first thing most users do is patch Workbench to stop it.

The only sound an Amiga should be making is music!

[Stephen Coates]

Getting rid of HD noise is great. But an essential amiga sound is the floppy drive(s).

An amiga just wouldn't be right without floppy sounds, and the constant clicking is just part of it. So I never disable clicking.

[Submeg]

ROCK ON! Fight the power! :rocker:

[Harrison]

Getting rid of HD noise is great. But an essential Amiga sound is the floppy drive(s).

An Amiga just wouldn't be right without floppy sounds, and the constant clicking is just part of it. So I never disable clicking.

The sound an Amiga floppy drive makes when accessing a disk is all part of the Amiga experience and I would never want to lose that, but even back in the Amiga days everyone hated the constant empty drive clicking sound while they were using Workbench. Try using a word processor for 8 hours with that clicking away the whole time!

[Demon Cleaner]

The old Catweasel (MkIII) drivers (DOS) were always started when you booted your PC, so your PC floppy drive (the one plugged to the CW) never stopped clicking. With the new Catweasel (MkIV), the drivers (Windows) are only started when you launch the program, so no more clicking when working with the PC.

[FOL]

Ive had my ups and downs with using CF. I have finally sorted it. If any of you have read my posts over at English Amiga Board, you will see the problems I had.

If your going down this route, you need a patched FFS, to handle 4GB+ and 2GB+ partitions. Im currently using OS3.9 as that does everything I need.

The best thing about CF is, you can now stick them in your PC CF reader, and set it all up using WinUAE (set to JIT, for extra speed). Once all setup, just slap it back in your Miggy and away you go, ;).

If you going to buy a buffered 4 Way IDE, then weigh up your options. Do you need speed? then get an IDEFIX EXPRESS (I personally had murder with this). Im not worried about transfer speed? then buy normal IDEFIX board (I had no problems with this board, wish i stuck to it).

You just need to decide what you actually want to do, before buying all the stuff. Also just using CF as HD (without any mods etc etc.), has worked fine in all tests I have tried.

[Harrison]

The best thing about CF is, you can now stick them in your PC CF reader, and set it all up using WinUAE

I actually hadn't thought about that benefit. That makes it much more appealing, because at the moment I tend to mirror my A4000 HD onto a Zip disk and then copy that onto my PC to use with WinUAE. Being about to just setup the actual Amiga and then access the same media easily on the PC using a CF card would be so much easier. :)

BTW, do you know anything about A4000 IDE? Does that also benefit form a buffered IDE interface? Can a CF card be used with it as easily as the A1200?

I tend to be more clued up regarding Amiga emulation than real Amigas these days as I don't have the room to have them setup all of the time, but I would really like to use my A4000 more often.

[FOL]

The best thing about CF is, you can now stick them in your PC CF reader, and set it all up using WinUAE

I actually hadn't thought about that benefit. That makes it much more appealing, because at the moment I tend to mirror my A4000 HD onto a Zip disk and then copy that onto my PC to use with WinUAE. Being about to just setup the actual Amiga and then access the same media easily on the PC using a CF card would be so much easier. :)

BTW, do you know anything about A4000 IDE? Does that also benefit form a buffered IDE interface? Can a CF card be used with it as easily as the A1200?

I tend to be more clued up regarding Amiga emulation than real Amigas these days as I don't have the room to have them setup all of the time, but I would really like to use my A4000 more often.

Hmmmm, not sure on A4000. You can get a variation on the IDEFIX for A4000, take a look at amigakit.com. They list the buffered IDE connectors there, then its best to have a search around, to see what others have done with IDE on A4000.

[Harrison]

It definitely would be easier if I can do this on the A4000. I'm going to have a look into this and see what's available and what others have done. I remember reading in magazines years ago that other A4000 owners had installed internal IDE/ATAPI drives, but I'm not sure how they did it. Might have been using a second zorro ide controller.

At the moment I have an external SCSI CD drive connected to it, but if I can connect an internal IDE drive that would reduce clutter no end.

[FOL]

It definitely would be easier if I can do this on the A4000. I'm going to have a look into this and see what's available and what others have done. I remember reading in magazines years ago that other A4000 owners had installed internal IDE/ATAPI drives, but I'm not sure how they did it. Might have been using a second zorro ide controller.

At the moment I have an external SCSI CD drive connected to it, but if I can connect an internal IDE drive that would reduce clutter no end.

Ah, it will definately be A4000 Buffered IDEFIX connector. It lets you split the IDE port, so you can connect an ATAPI drive when you install IDEFIX97. I used the A1200 version to jam a Slim CDROM into my A1200, and IDEFIX97 gives you CD32 Emulator, ;).

[Harrison]

I used to use a CD32 emulator with my Squirrel SCSI interface on the A1200 and that worked quite well. It only seemed to have a bit of trouble with the ram save feature of the CD32 games. But then I bought a CD32 so that wasn't needed any longer.

Would be good to see how much smoother the CD32 version of Wing Commander plays on an A4000 though. That was a bit too jerky on the CD32 to be fully playable.