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View Full Version : Some nice neat and small RETRO/MAME SFF machines



Bloodwych
1st March 2010, 16:03
Here is one for the lazy - a pre-installed SFF MAME PC:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/DELL-OPTIPLEX-SX270-USFF-PC-FULL-PLUG-PLAY-MAME-SETUP_W0QQitemZ250588937016QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Computing_DesktopPCs?hash=item3a5843bb38

Not bad actually if you want a dedicated retro machine. Good price too.

The hard drive is a bit small on that DELL and the software a little questionable on legality, but it looks to be a nice SFF for a dedicated retro machine.

I already have a couple of SFF's - an Aopen and Biostar.

---------- Post added at 04:03 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:24 PM ----------

Ok, had a quick read about the small DELL OPTIPLEX SX270 in the MAME auction above. They have a few known problems (heat, PSU) and the possibility of leaking caps, others seem happy with them and these may have been refurbished.

Worth checking out however, if interested.

Harrison
1st March 2010, 17:38
SFF machines are definitely good for emulation. I have one SFF from Biostar myself, although it is currently retired and packed away as the PSU fan got quite noisy. It is also a few years old now and only an Athlon XP 3000+, although that is still good enough for emulation.

You mentioned you have a BioStar one. What are your views on it? Mine is a 200N with silver aluminum case. The insides are quite nicely designed, although the PSU and CPU fans on mine could get quite noisy. I also had to cut a hole in the front side panel and fit an extra intake fan to get good airflow through the system. It ran well for about 3 years though as my main download and test server.

The best for emulation in a system case that small these days is an Intel Core 2 CPU as they run very cool.

The one on offer in that auction is a little low spec in my view. XP isn't that great with 512MB ram anyway. Much better with 1GB. And as you say, the HDD is way too small. You can however easily buy much larger 2.5" HDDs these days. Even a 500GB 2.5" drive doesn't cost that much.

Bloodwych
1st March 2010, 19:11
It is on the low spec side, but I know a 2.8Ghz P4 will run just about any emulator apart from the newer 3D MAME stuff. I agree though, modern CPU's run so much cooler now they're 45nm tech and are even better for SFF.

The reason this caught my eye is it's kind of a Dell custom ITX PC with licensed copy of XP - also with laptop components and so it's very small and easy to carry around. The weak link is the hot running P4. ITX systems are faily expensive to build - the cases and motherboards are quite dear if you want a half decent system. Only the expensive ones have decent CPU's - most are slower than P4's including the Atom based machines.

As for my Ideq, it's the 210P: http://www.biostar-usa.com/ideqdetails.asp?model=ideq+210p

It's got a Athlon64 3200+ Venice, so it runs pretty cool, and a true power 250W PSU allowing me to run an x800 pro in their. Also got some nice CAS 2 crucial ballistix RAM.

It's old by today's standards, but I use it to play all the old PC games, some multiplayer LAN gaming when friends come around and emulation too. Never felt a need to upgrade it - it's a nice small gaming machine for pre-shader model 3 titles.

I'm surprised you had to add extra cooling - what were you running in there? As you said the fans run quiet fast and noisy at default. You have to install speedfan or Biostars fan control software that came with the case to bring them under control. It works quite well, but it's a shame Biostars "smartfan" doesn't do this at bios level as well as my Aopen SFF which is nearly silent without any extra software.

I did actually mod my Biostar one too actually - the x800 pro's heatsink fan turned into a screamer, so I removed it and placed an 80mm stealth fan on the cases ventilation holes right in front of the card. Works well, and is quieter.

I don't think I'll ever retire this machine until it breaks or the Aopen one (XP Mobile, legendary nforce2 chipset). As you said, they are neat and well designed inside - full colour manuals too!!!! The Aopen one has some nice touches and was definately a labour of love for the designer - very nice machine: http://www.hardwarezone.com/articles/view.php?cid=26&id=1189

Use them both for retro gaming and now retro XP gaming since Windows 7 is the way forward. I have them networked permanently to one another for two player LAN gaming in the same room too. Enjoy them more than my main Quad core machine online when friends come over!!!!

So, these will probably be my SFF's for many years to come. Just don't feel the need to upgrade when they play all my old games and emulators absolutely fine.

Harrison
2nd March 2010, 00:23
The problem with mine was the Athlon XP 3000+ CPU. The older Athlon XP processors liked to run hot, and didn't have very high temperature ceiling before they got into trouble. The one in my Biostar SFF would sometimes hit 60 Deg C, which was way too hot for my liking, and that was with the fans all on max. Adding the extra fan to the side of the case dropped the temps to 40-50 deg C, which was better. And most Athlon XP's all ran in the 40's a lot fo the time anyway so it was more normal.

One of the main reasons I stopped using the system was the noise to keep the temps down, and the amount of heat it pumped out the back. No need for the central heating in the room. Athlon XPs do have a special mode that allows them to slow down when not being used fully, and therefore rom cooler, but for some reason none of the utilities that enable that would work with that system. In another Athlon XP system a utility called vCool worked perfectly and dropped the CPU temp to 32 Deg C when idling which is very low for an Athlon XP.

But these days that is still fairly high. Even my older Athlon 64 3700+ only goes into the 30's when running a game and taxing the CPU. That idles in the low 20's. And my Intel Quad Core system idles in the 20's too, which is great when you think there are 4 cores in there. Amazing how CPU and computer technology in general keeps moving forward.

I keep thinking about building a mini-itx system, but as you mentioned, they can get quite expensive to build. The motherboards with the built in CPUs are expensive to start with, then you have to use laptop ram and drives with them which all costs more than standard parts, and the small cases and the pico PSUs are all expensive too.

Would be great having a Mini ITX Intel Core 2 system though that could be on all the time for downloading and general internet and email.

Demon Cleaner
2nd March 2010, 06:13
Didn't read the whole thing now, but talking about SFF or barebone systems, how do you find these (http://www.caseking.de/shop/catalog/OrigenAE-HPTC-Gehaeuse-fuer-das-Wohnzimmer:_:239.html). Look very good I think.

Bloodwych
2nd March 2010, 10:08
LOL Demoncleaner, no wonder you didn't read the whole thread, it's a long winded one! :D

That link you gave - very nice looking machines. Top ones look a little like a mac-mini. Make a great HTCP machine with the front VFD's.

Harrison, yeah those older XP's did run hot. The one I have in my Aopen is the low voltage mobile Barton with 512kb cache - 1.4v vs 1.75 of normal XP's. It was the last generation of XP's made for laptops and manufactured on the smaller process. It runs very cool, even overclocked to 2.2Ghz at 1.5v.

The Aopen SFF also has a HUGE copper based heatsink. The thing weighs a ton, expels heat straight out the side of the case, so it really does run very quiet even when I used to have a hotter XP in there. It's definitely designed a lot better for cooling and noise than the Biostar.

I'd love an ITX system too - but I already have 4 PC's. Just can't justify anymore.

Harrison
2nd March 2010, 12:20
@DC. Those cases look great. I especially like the bottom one with the sliding touch-screen. It would be perfect for a standalone jukebox and media system.

But they are very expensive.

@Bloodwych. Only 4 PCs? :lol: You are only getting started! ;)

Bloodwych
2nd March 2010, 16:09
LOL!! How many have you got Harrision? I thought you off-loaded a few a while back? :D

Harrison
2nd March 2010, 16:46
Currently I have 3 that are used daily. My main system, my emulation system, and my download and testing server. And I think another 8 (including laptops).

And that isn't including all the retro stuff! :lol:

1980-20..
2nd March 2010, 22:31
Im looking at building a mame cab this year that sff looks quite good. Is there any othere route i could take,i have no knowledge of pc harware or that but i dont mind learning. Ive never built a pc and i supose i could combine that into my cab project.

So any good site links would be greatly appreciated.:)

Harrison
3rd March 2010, 01:38
Building a PC isn't as hard, or as complicated as it looks. It can seem a very daunting task to anyone who has never attempted it, but it is really not that complicated.

And building a MAME cabinet is great fun. It does depend how far you want to go with such a project though. Do you just want an arcade style joystick setup, and a PC setup to run MAME and other emulators? Or are you thinking on a larger scale with a full sized arcade cabinet and controls, with a PC inside?

1980-20..
3rd March 2010, 13:00
Well the idea is to buy an old empty arcade cabinet, theres a place about an hour from where i live that strips down faulty arcade machines and sells the parts.

The empty cabinets they have dont include monitors just the shell, coin door but no mechanism and the protective glass that the monitor sits behind.

Then i was going to stick a mame pc in it connected to an old 26" sony triniton crt tv if i can get hold of one that is. So most of the fun in the project will come from repairing and re painting the cabinet and from building a new control panel and now possibly building my own pc.

So yeah any links to blogs about building pcs or sites that sell parts or advice on reclaiming parts from old pcs anything like that would be much appreciated.

Harrison
3rd March 2010, 14:30
The first place to start when exploring MAME and building a cabinet is mameworld.info. It has a ton of hosted sites dedicated to everything MAME related, plus even more links to even more sites.

Also look at http://www.tmsoft.com/article-arcade.htm for a nice guide to building a MAME cabinet.

About the monitor. I personally would not use a TV. The author of that guide recommends it, but a decent CRT monitor would be better as they have a wider supporting range of resolutions for different games. Sony Trinitron 21" monitors are being thrown away and given away all the time these days. Look on Freecycle for one.

Although the ultimate screen is the Wells Gardner 27" arcade monitor. This is a real arcade monitor and will give a perfect arcade resolution to look,. They got a couple hundred though, and you also need to buy a special graphics card to drive them.

For the controller I would have recommended SlikStik, but I've just seen they have sadly gone out of business. Have a look at http://www.mameroom.com/ instead.

Also take a look at X-arcade, as they have some great pre-build arcade controllers. I own the dual stick one, as does DC and it is a great unit. I also own a SlikStik classic which is much bigger and has a lot more controls, but isn't as easy to integrate into every cabinet and they are also no longer made.

However the best option in my view is to build your own controller layout. To do this you need something called the I-PAC. It is an arcade controller board which you wire the joysticks and buttons to, and then connects via USB to the PC and includes software to configure your controls. Take a look at http://www.ultimarc.com/ipac1.html

And the same company Ultimarc also sell all of the real arcade buttons and joysticks to use with it. http://www.ultimarc.com/

X-Arcade who build the premade arcade controllers also offer parts to build your own controller layouts similar to ultimarc, but they are not real arcade joysticks and buttons, but instead their own which are still quite close and very good. They also make a controller board similar to the I-PAC, called the X-arcade BYO Arcade USB/PS2 to wire them all up to, but I personally don't think it is as good as the I-PAC. It supports less than half the inputs for additional buttons and controls. For that take a look at http://www.xgaming.com/store/arcade-parts-and-accessories/product/x-arcade-byo-arcade-usb-ps2/ and also their main custom page at http://www.xgaming.com/store/category/arcade-parts-and-accessories/?utm_source=mameworld&utm_medium=banner&utm_campaign=diy

And for the actual PC, build whatever you like. Anything from a Pentium 4 or Athlon XP or newer will be powerful enough to run MAME and any none 3D games and emulators. You will need a very new PC to try to run the later 3D and CHD MAME games, and even then they still don't all run properly so it is best not to concern yourself with those.

If I were building a new PC for a MAME cabinet I would probably use an Intel Core 2 Duo CPU as they are coming to the end of their life and the dual and quad core versions are good value for money at the moment. Stick at least 1GB of ram in the system and use XP or Windows 7. Don't use an Atom powered mini-itx system as they are not powerful enough for MAME. And buy the largest HDD you can afford, and use SATA if possible as they are cheaper than IDE these days and with the much smaller cables less cabling to worry about and easier to configure. Also include a DVD drive in the system as it is the easiest way to update your rom sets. Or maybe a wireless network card, then you can copy new roms to the cabinet, or access the internet on the cabinet and download them directly and update the emulators.

Also consider including a keyboard tray under the main controller area of the cabinet. A pop out sliding tray is normally what most people add to hide the keyboard away when not needed, and also a mouse could be stored in here too.

Hope all that helps.

1980-20..
3rd March 2010, 15:53
Cheers for the advice Harrison some useful bits to go on there. I was going for the tv option as i thought it would be easier to find one with a larger screen size than it would be to find a monitor of a similar size. Over the last six months of checking freecycle ive seen 6 or 7 sony triiniton tvs but no monitors so far.

Ill definetly be building my own controls as the x arcade stuff ive seen during my bit of research are imho a weee bit ugly.

The advce on the pc seems good but where to buy from any good sugestions.

Thanks again.

Harrison
3rd March 2010, 16:19
I normally buy from novatech or ebayer for PC hardware. If you know a rough budget for the PC let me know and I can do you a rough list of parts.

1980-20..
3rd March 2010, 20:41
Ok i was hoping to do the whole thing for £250 ive done a rough calculation and i think i can do the main cab and controls for £150 so that leves £100 for the pc and monitor but im hoping to pick up a monitor for free so lets say £100 for the pc.


What you recon is it doable.:)

Harrison
4th March 2010, 01:35
£100 isn't going to be enough if you want to build using good new parts. Cheapest good spec for a budget PC system to put into the cab that will be able to run MAME and other emulators well would be similar to the following (prices from ebuyer.com):

CPU - Intel Pentium Dual Core E5300 2.6GHz Socket 775 Retail CPU (included heatsink/fan)- £47.17
Motherboard - Gigabyte GA-G31M-ES2L (onboard VGA graphics and 7.1 audio) - £32.79
Ram - Corsair 2GB DDR2 800MHz PC2-6400 XMS2 - £37.65
HDD - Seagate 250GB HDD SATAII 7200RPM 8MB Cache OEM - £30.60
PSU - Antec Power 500W PSU - £28.13

Total price = £176.34

And I don't think you could really reduce the price much more of the components here as they are already very good prices and all quality makes. The motherboard also has built in VGA graphics and audio, so you wouldn't need a graphics card, although it does have a PCI-E slot so that could be added later. Cheap PCI-E graphics cards start as low as £30.

You could cut the ram to 1GB to get the price even lower.

Above spec but with Crucial 1GB DDR2 800MHz PC2-6400 - £18.99

Total price = £157.68

But only consider having just 1GB of ram if you are only going to be running XP or Linux. If you plan to use Vista or Windows 7 then get 2GB.

As you are putting the PC inside an arcade cabinet you don't actually need a PC case to house the components as you could just mount them on a piece of MDF inside the case. Although you can get reasonable cases for under £20 if you did want to mount all the components properly.

The other option is to buy a second hand PC. Loads can be found on ebay, but you won't be able to guarantee good quality components in a PC someone else built, or how well it has been looked after. If you wanted to go for this option, the oldest to go for would be an Athlon 64, or an Intel Core 2 Duo. Don't go for Pentium 4's or Athlon XPs as the run hot and would heat up the inside the cabinet.

Bloodwych
4th March 2010, 21:15
You can get a decent machine for £100 on ebay, but it can be a waiting game - since I have a slot loading slimline DVDRW lying around, and all this talk about ITX PC's, I couldn't resist a Fujitsu Siemens C series slimline desktop.

I get the extra 1GB mem too, so 2GB mem and a Vista licence tied to the machine. Blah, you had to challenge me to getting more PC's Harrison!

I'll use this as a very energy efficient download/server/linux/emulation machine me thinks.

Harrison
5th March 2010, 14:37
:lol: can never have enough computers!

Those Fujitsu Siemens slimline systems are quite nice. Seem to get fairly good reviews.

Bloodwych
5th March 2010, 17:26
I've always liked Fujitsu Siemens's stuff. Their motherboards from older era's always seemed over engineered and to be of superior quality to other vendors - more like server grade stuff.

That one above is very cleverly designed and small - seen one in a workplace once.

Not sure what they are like these days - hopefully they still use premium components.

Harrison
5th March 2010, 17:30
I always liked their laptops too, although not seen many recently. They don't seem to advertise hardware as much any longer either.

Bloodwych
5th March 2010, 19:18
If you look at the newer versions of this PC Esprimo SFF desktop, they retail for about £400-£600.

http://www.dealtime.co.uk/xPO-Fujitsu-Fujitsu-C5730-E5300-Desktop-PC

It has an internal pico style PSU, laptop optical drive which I'm going to replace with a slot loading DVDRW and a couple of silent fans - they are very quiet machines. Well, hopefully, but fans are easily replaced if I get one with a dodgy squeel!

Not sure if the drive is 2.5" or 3.5".

Decided I might put this one in the front room next to the PS3 since it's small and quiet.

1980-20..
7th March 2010, 22:37
Ok i managed to get hold of this tower off ebay, the auction finished today so not collected it yet or inspected it. The blokes thrown in a keyboard and mouse with it wich is handy, i just need to borrow a monitor to test it all works ok.

Here it is.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=130370786716&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT

I also managed to buy this for £20 plus p&p but it wont be of much interest here. All in all a good evening.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140387175816&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

Oh if you notice anything amiss with the pc dont be affraid to point it out any help is apreciated.

Bloodwych
8th March 2010, 14:09
The case looks a little grubby and outdated, but when you look at what's inside - I think you've got a nice machine and bargain there! A lot of hardware for your cash!

I mean it has a nice motherboard, 3GB RAM is easily enough even for Vista, the dual core CPU great, low power and cool running for MAME, plus it has a 250GB hard drive plus another 80GB drive inside but not connected!

On top of all that it has a wireless card and a perfect graphics card for MAME and emulation - low power and quiet 8400GS - so you're not sharing main memory by using an integrated solution. Even a TV card is wedged in there!

Have we stopped - no! Wireless keyboard and mouse too!

And you've got some OS keys tied to the machine, plus a fresh install of Vista!!!

Looks can be deceiving! Nice buy! The problems (sticking CD drive, no problem there are two) look minor.

It mentions the 80GB hard drive being disconnected because it was used for an optical drive. Here is what I advise. Once you've checked it works, get a SATA to IDE adaptor and hook it up to one of the SATA ports - that's what I did with my old IDE 160GB. Then you can split the page file onto its own channel and hard drive for better performance! Plus you can store drive image backups on the second drive (in case your main drive dies) as it can take a while to set up an OS perfect for MAME and emulation, as well as ROMS and MAME CHDs!!!

http://shop.ebay.co.uk/?_from=R40&_trksid=m38&_nkw=ide+sata+adaptor&_sacat=See-All-Categories

I'd be tempted to replace the case or give it a good clean, but since it will be hidden in a cab I guess it doesn't really matter.

Good start. Hope the pick up goes well.

As for the Speccy - haven't seen one of those in person for years! Used to have one, but replaced it with a +2.

Harrison
8th March 2010, 20:25
That is a perfect PC for your MAME cabinet project. As Bloodwych said, that will easily run MAME and other emulation. And the hardware is cool running and quiet too. More than enough ram, HD space and CPU speed to do what you need. And definitely a good price for what you get included to the PC. Nice one :thumbs:

And we are definitely interested in Speccy's, juist as much as any retro hardware. Great price for a rare model too. Have you owned Spectrums before, or is this your first?

1980-20..
8th March 2010, 21:38
Cheers for the feedback guys just got it home pickup went smoothly.The case is a bit dirtyer than id expected and the psu doesent seem to be sitting flush in the case but all in all it looks ok.

Ive got two spectrum 48k pluses but they are both in need of repair, ive been on the look at for 128k heatsink model for quite a while, its my favourite looking speccy so i was quite happy i won it.

Harrison
8th March 2010, 21:55
One thing you might consider is replacing the PSU in the PC you just got. You won't know how long the system has been on and running for or if the PSU was new with these components, or has been with the case longer if the case was used again for the current setup. Do you know how old the system is? And what make the PSU is?

PSUs suddenly becoming faulty and dying is the most common issue with PCs, and when the PSU dies they can easily surge and kill motherboards, HDDs, ram, CPUs etc... so making sure the PSU is good is a top priority.

1980-20..
8th March 2010, 22:07
Hmmmm yes that is somethig to ponder. If i wanted to use a tv with the pc what would i need to connect the two.

Harrison
9th March 2010, 03:05
The graphics card should support TV out. Does it have an S-Video port on it next to the main DVI/VGA port? If not then you can normally switch one of the VGA/DVI ports to output to S-Video or composite and would need to get a cable.

The TV card might also be able to output too.

1980-20..
9th March 2010, 08:22
Yeah the graphics card has video out via s video but there is no s video connection on my tv, it only has scart rf and composite.

Harrison
10th March 2010, 03:06
You could make an S-Video to scart cable. Many scart sockets on TVs can accept S-Video signals.

1980-20..
13th March 2010, 09:46
Make! make!, who do you think i am McGyver?:). Ive ordered a solution off of e bay

Bloodwych
13th March 2010, 20:58
My Esprimo C5910 arrived earlier this week and it's very quiet - in fact I had to look twice to make sure it was switched on!!!!!

It runs four fans in the case, but at very low RPM. I was happy to find it came with the newer core2 E6320 with 4MB L2 cache, also 2GB dual channel RAM upgradeable to 8GB. The temps of the CPU are idle 27C, load 45C without any increase in fan RPM.

Very well designed - everything is screwless and uses green plastic latches. It has a laptop optical drive, but 3.5" SATA HDD. I'm going to get a SATA to eSATA cable and give it an external HDD connector to make use of that spare motherboard SATA header. Might also get a PCI riser card, as it didn't come with one.

This is going to make a nice SFF low power machine. Here is a pic of its guts on my knees:

http://img708.imageshack.us/img708/8076/c5910.jpg

It's about the same size as a PS3 fat.

1980-20..
13th March 2010, 22:44
Not been a good evening for me im a wee bit sad. My cable for pc to tv arived but no joy getting it to work, also my speccy arived and its dead, i purchased it untested.:(

Buleste
13th March 2010, 23:01
If you ever want to try and get another speccy you could always try here. (http://www.retrogamingworld.co.uk/section.php?collection=10&section=79) I know they're expensive but at least they come complete and tested.

Bloodwych
13th March 2010, 23:15
What cable is it 1980-20? S-Video->SCART? Do you have a link?

Have you checked the graphics card drivers to make sure TV out is activated as monitor/display 2? Sometimes only one is active as a default setting.

As for the speccy, perhaps someone knows how to repair it on an enthusiast board.

1980-20..
13th March 2010, 23:37
If you ever want to try and get another speccy you could always try here. (http://www.retrogamingworld.co.uk/section.php?collection=10&section=79) I know they're expensive but at least they come complete and tested.

Cheers for that nice link and the QL on there isnt too bad a price oooh tempting but still out of my price range. I took a chance, got it cheap and well i payed the price, it was sold as spares and repairs and thats what i got so i shouldnt complain realy.I wasnt expecting it to be 100% but i was hoping it would only be a faulty keyboard membrane or boot to blank screen, but it apears to be completley dead.



What cable is it 1980-20? S-Video->SCART? Do you have a link?

Have you checked the graphics card drivers to make sure TV out is activated as monitor/display 2? Sometimes only one is active as a default setting.

As for the speccy, perhaps someone knows how to repair it on an enthusiast board.

Its s/video to rcb using a scart converter. Ive tested on two different tvs on one i got b/w image as the pc was booting up but then it returned to blue av screen and on the other tv i got no picture but got audio interference. Its a cheap cable heres the link

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/7-Pin-S-Video-to-3-RCA-TV-Male-Cable-Lead-for-Laptop-PC_W0QQitemZ140370916646QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Computing_CablesConnectors_RL?hash=item20aec23526

and yeah ill be asking for help at my usual hang out for speccy stuff, but i like chating with you guys too.:D

Bloodwych
14th March 2010, 00:20
Glad you like sharing your Speccy interests! :D

Lots of info on Google regarding S-Video -> SCART and why you get a b&w picture:

http://www.google.co.uk/search?num=100&hl=en&newwindow=1&safe=off&q=8400GS+tv+out+black+and+white+scart&btnG=Search&meta=

Some TV's can cycle through different SCART modes or have one scart hooked up for composite and S-Video only. Perhaps the graphics drivers allow output to composite rather than S-Video too?

Also try booting the computer with the TV and not a VGA monitor connected, as the 8400GS can have problems with two simultanious analog sources.

Looks like your issue is only getting one of the S-Video feeds instead of a combined two, plus the display going out of range when windows boots (refresh or resolution issue in driver settings?)

Might be worth a few different Google searches, if you haven't tried already.

Also found this, which should make sure you get all S-Video feeds put through to SCART, rather than just one, but again there is no guarantee: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Scart-to-3-RCA-Phono-SVHS-TV-Gold-Adapter-Converter-M_W0QQitemZ270393857442QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Computing_CablesConnectors_RL?hash=item3ef4bad5a2

1980-20..
14th March 2010, 00:40
Cheers for all the help bloodwych, i think i was expecting it to be easy and straight forward. I should get there in the end.

Bloodwych
14th March 2010, 10:02
I'm probably mentioning things you've already looked into, but good luck with finishing off the build.

The best option would be a 21" or larger CRT VGA monitor rather than TV, but they can cost a bit to get delivered because of the weight.

1980-20..
14th March 2010, 23:54
I'm probably mentioning things you've already looked into, but good luck with finishing off the build.

The best option would be a 21" or larger CRT VGA monitor rather than TV, but they can cost a bit to get delivered because of the weight.

Oh no no mate never under estimate my stupidity. A lot of the stuff you came up with was stuff i hadnt looked at, once i start going down certain route i can become a wee bit blinkered, plus im not very tech savy. Id put most of my energy into researching s/ video cables and wot not when i should have been looking at the graphics card side of things.

:)

1980-20..
17th March 2010, 16:07
Errrrrr I seem to have broken it now.

I opened it up to clean the case fan and try and fit the psu in properly (it doesent fit the case i have now discovered)and when i tried to turn it back on it doesent seem to work, dang it!!!. Everything powers up on the front and all the fans start up, disc trays open and close but it doesent boot. The screen displays a logo that matches one on the mother board, so i thought everything was pointing to the power to the hdd being accidently disconected but it seems ok.

Any ideas.:mecry:

My pc :rip:


Thanks :D

Harrison
17th March 2010, 16:48
If you are seeing the motherboard logo on-screen then the PSU, motherboard and graphics card are all working correctly. Do any of the keyboard LEDs flash when you switch it on, or are there any beeps from the system?

If it were the HDD disconnected then the system would post and then try to boot the system and after not detecting an OS to load it would show a message asking you to insert a system disk.

You might have knocked something inside the case such as the ram, which you could just make sure is all seated correctly in its slots.

Another thing could be an intrusion detector. Some motherboards have a microswitch which detects when the case is opened, then then won't boot.

Try getting into the BIOS first before doing anything else. Normally this will be by pressing the Delete key soon after switching the system on. Just keep pressing it continuously and it should eventually enter the bios. If that doesn't work then some motherboards use F2 or another key.

Phantom
17th March 2010, 16:53
Connect your pc speaker (if you haven't) to hear any sounds. Different sounds represent a different problem. Check your mobo's manual for that or search it on internet.

Bloodwych
17th March 2010, 18:02
This will probably end up being something really silly stopping it from booting.

As Harrision said, there are clues to what's going on in the bios and as Phantom said speaker beeps help too - also are there any messages when he computers logo is displayed?

In the bios, you have settings to halt on certain errors, all errors or no errors. Try changing it to halt on no errors. It may get it to boot, but you still have to identify the problem.

Things that can stop it booting:


CPU fan not being connected.
Hard drive power connector not properly seated (I know you've checked this one)
Floppy drive cable in the wrong way (easily done if it's not tabbed)
Memory not seated correctly
Graphics card not seated correctly
In fact any connector not seated correctly!
Boot order not correct in bios (eg Hard drive, CDROM, USB stick)
Motherboard shorting out on something (like a case standoff or something metal touching the components)


If all else fails:

Go in and check everything again - every connector - make sure the case isn't in contact with the back of the motherboard or anything metal has somehow made contact with the board.

Turn the power off by the mains (and I mean the mains) and reset the CMOS (should be a jumper to change over, or pull out the battery for 30 seconds). Don't forget to put the jumper back in its original position or it won't boot.

Start up the PC - hit delete or F2 or whatever it is for that board to enter the BIOS.

Load optimised defaults.

Set every option as you want it and make sure the hardware is being detected correctly in the various menus.

Save and restart.

1980-20..
17th March 2010, 21:57
Hmmmm thanks for all the help. I havent got any speakers for pc so i cant check the beeps, i tryed to access the bios but no joy.

I checked all the connections and they seemed ok, but when i turned the computer back on the monitor isnt receiving a signal. Hmmmm a step in the wrong direction LoL:D.

Thanks for all the help but i think im going to call it a day i cant see me fixing this on my own.

Harrison
18th March 2010, 11:39
If the monitor is now not receiving a signal then the most obvious thing is the graphics card. Remove the graphics card from the motherboard and then put it back in. Giving it a firm push into the slot. Also make sure that if the card needs any power connectors from the PSU to be plugged in that they are, or this can stop it working.

To hear motherboard warning beeps, there is normally a PC speaker header on the motherboard close to where the HDD, power LED etc wires are plugged into the motherboard. Normally at the bottom right corner. The PC speaker connector will be a 3 or 4 pin long connector and will normally say speaker on it and be colour coded red and black. This just requires a basic speaker that is often fitted as standard to the front of older PC cases. It is worth trying to find a speaker to plug into the motherboard as the motherboard warning beeps will tell you exactly what the problem is.

1980-20..
19th April 2010, 22:06
Thanks for all the help you guys gave me on this i finaly fixed it today. I reseated the graphics card and removed a stick of ram and its working fine now. I was waiting ages because id ordered a set of speakers off ebay and they took ages to arive and when they did didnt get any beebs after all the waiting.

Anyway thanks again.:D

Bloodwych
20th April 2010, 09:21
That's great to know, that you got it working again.

I guess the project is back on! If you had to remove a stick of ram, it sounds like a bad stick but it could be a config issue also. You can test each ram stick with memtest+ http://www.memtest.org/

Your board probably supports dual channel mem, so have a read about mem configs for you motherboard: http://www.nvidia.com/object/designed_by_nvidia_650i_ultra.html

Sometimes you have to play aound with the settings in the bios to get two sticks stable in dual channel, or run them in single channel mode (they will run about 5% slower; not much difference in real world apps between dual and single channel).

Good luck with your Arcade build! :D

Harrison
20th April 2010, 09:29
Yes, that is great news that you managed to get it working again.

Good luck with continuing the project. :)

1980-20..
25th April 2010, 14:55
Sorry not replied earlier thanks for all the messages. Ill have to do the mem test thing at some point. I put the stick of ram back in but not in the fist slot and got no complaints from the puter. If the memory was bad would it be worth buying two more to boost the ram to 4gb or is it not necessary, does it make any difference that one of the slots is empty.

The project is plodding along but had a bit of luck on ebay again yesterday heres a link (dont take swig of tea before clicking on it, as my ebay jammyness will mean your screen will be covered in tea).

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280496529153&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT

Its collection and well i couldnt face giving the bloke 1p so ive offered him £20.

:notworthy::shades::notworthy:

Harrison
26th April 2010, 16:28
Very nice find. Those Sony 21" monitors used to be some of the best, with many other manufacturers using their tubes, such as IBM and Mitsubishi, with near flat trinitron panels. Great pictures. And they go to nice high resolutions if needed too. In fact the max resolution quotes for that one is 2048x1536, which you can only find these days with 30" LCDs!

I expect the guy selling it was just glad to find it a new home. I had real trouble trying to find a new home for the last 21" CRT I owned. I didn't want to just throw it away as it still worked perfectly. In the end I did manage to find someone via freecycle and they only lived round the corner!

Bloodwych
2nd June 2010, 23:24
Updated my Fujitsu MAME/RETRO/DOWNLOAD machine thingy today, replacing the E6320 1.83Ghz with a E6600 2.4Ghz, the highest CPU it supports:

http://img708.imageshack.us/img708/8076/c5910.jpg

Didn't really need to, but a cheap one popped up on ebay and I can sell the E6320 making it about a £10 upgrade. They are actually identical chips with different multiplyers, but the Fujitsu has no ability to overclock. Guess it will help with a few MAME titles.