KryoFlux - USB Floppy Controller Beta Released

[fiath]

KryoFlux is an advanced software-programmable FDC (Floppy Disk Controller) system that runs on small and cheap ARM7-based devices and connects to a host PC over the ubiquitous USB connector. It reads (and in the future, will write) flux transitions from magnetic media (most commonly, floppy disks) at a very fine resolution. KryoFlux can read data with no regard for what disk format or copy protection a disk may contain, and it can also read disks originally written with different (and even varying) bit cell widths and drive speeds, with a normal fixed-speed drive.

KryoFlux is available for free for private non-commercial use. You will however need to build or buy a board based on our open hardware design.

KryoFlux supports dumping any floppy disk to “stream files”, which contain the raw flux transition information. It supports output of a range of common “sector dumps” (e.g. ADF) to allow you to use your dumped images right away in your favourite emulator.

Trailer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kjfT-F0GUl4
Info: http://softpres.org/glossary:kryoflux
Beta 2 Release News Item: http://kryoflux.org/news:2010-02-18

[Harrison]

That sounds brilliant. If writing back to disk can be made possible, then this will be the perfect solution for Amiga fans. :thumbs:

[burns flipper]

HOLY SWEET LORD!!!!!

This is exactly what I need to finally convert all my old PD disks so I can make them freely available, all the software I have that was never available on aminet!!

:wired: :biggrindance: :thankyou: :ridingbanana: :Champagne2: :hooray:

[fiath]

Harrison: Writing support is definitely planned, yes. Of course, you probably want to wait until we have actually done it if that is your primary usage. :)

burns flipper: Wow, that founds great. Our system is predominantly motivated by our preservation requirements at the Software Preservation Society, so we have poured tons of effort into testing to ensure we have a reliable system, and that any possible integrity checks are done on the data read. We want to excite people about this system - if people find it useful and free, we are hoping it will make our main preservation focus easier - an kind of "expand the market" exercise - though of course we do the preservation work unpaid too. We certainly hope that others such as yourself can benefit from it.

[fiath]

MINI FAQ:

Q. Why is it free?
A. Because we are a non-profit preservation organisation, and our ultimate goal is not financial, but to save all these wonderful games before they are lost.

Q. Do I need a special drive?
A. No. Just a standard PC drive and floppy cable is required to dump any media for that drive.

Q. Does it work with 5 1/4" drives?
A. Yes. Check 1min 10secs into the YouTube trailer. :)

Q. Will it work on a laptop?
A. Yes. It uses standard USB. We have it running on an EeePC.

Q. Why can't I just use the floppy drive in my PC?
A. The floppy controller in the PC can only read the very strict format PC disks, and not very much of anything from other platforms. Not only that, but any copy protection on disks is hard to extract properly without a "low level" read - which you can't do through a PC's FDC. For various reasons, we would strongly argue that images of disks read through a PC floppy controller are unsuitable for preservation.

Q. Is it Windows only?
A. The software is currently in beta, and only runs on Windows (32 or 64-bit, Windows XP or greater). The source to the host software will be available after we go final, and we are then hoping to get it ported to as many platforms as possible. The code was written with portability in mind.

Q. Is it command-line only usage?
A. For the beta, yes. However, we are working on a graphical user interface which will likely be available when we go final.

[Harrison]

As the software is non-profit, if people are interested in manufacturing the board for this system once the final version is complete, will there be any condition or restrictions on how they can market sell the board, if they want to include the software with the board, and how much they can charge?

Also, you state that a standard PC drive can be used to dump any media. So to access Amiga formatted disks with this controller, we will just need a standard PC 1.44MB drive, rather than an actual 880K Amiga floppy drive? And in its current beta stage, have there been any specific makes and model of drive that the system works best with? I ask because with the existing commercial Catweasel controller system that requires very specific makes and models of drive to get it working properly.

Final question. Will it be possible to read and write disks on the fly with this controller, for emulators? Or will it only be possible to dump disks to images and write disks from images? Therefore requiring the creation of a disk image to access them within emulators such as WinUAE? My ideal dream would be to have a seamless disk controller that can be accessed within WinUAE to access disks as if it were a real Amiga. However, just being able to create perfect dumped images of Amiga disks for use within emulators, and for archival backup purposes will still be great if that is the main function of KryoFlux.

[fiath]

I'll answer this questions in separate posts, in the interests of giving you a full answer.

Manufacturing hardware.

Short Answer: Yes, if they want to sell it as a KryoFlux device. If they are not advertising it as KryoFlux device, they can do whatever they want.

Yes, there are some restrictions. The design is open hardware - anyone can make it and sell it any any price with no input from us (I'm glad you note that our hardware design is currently a prototype. The software isn't though - and the software is where the real magic lies). However, if they want to sell it as a KryoFlux device, and they probably do, then they need a license and certification - we don't want people making rubbish under the KryoFlux name, and the license fees are intended to help us with our preservation efforts.

The software is free for personal/private use, it cannot be sold in any form, or use in any non-personal usage without a license. Of course, if a company wants to sell KryoFlux devices, the software would be part of the negotiation.

Are you asking because you know someone who would be interested in this? We are in negotiations at the moment, but the more hardware manufacturers the better IMO. We will of course promote licensed hardware from our website.

[fiath]

Supported Drives

Short Answer: KryoFlux will (well, should) work with any Shugart-compliant drive.

Of course, there are always compliations. All drives claim to be Shugart-compliant, but in fact, things have gotten worse the last few years. Another problem is OEM manufacturers, you can buy a well known brand and end up with something generic.

There are some manufacturers who have messed with the specs which can cause problems with dumping. Others have added SD card readers to their FDD (!), most of those don't work either. And with prices going down each year, manufacturers have chosen to make the enlcosures of thinner metal parts which leads to drives which will be misaligned when screwed too tightly into an enclosure.

We have good experience with older models (before 2005, but not older than 2000) made by e.g. Teac (beware of OEM drives!), Sony, Panasonic, Nec, Sanyo and also some Mitsumi (Newtronics) but we'd generally say avoid the latter at all cost (most of them are for the bin, really). 5.25" drives seem to be fine somehow. We'd recommend getting two or more different brands when buying. At a few pounds for a 3.5" drive, this isn't usally a problem.

A word of warning regarding even older drives: Capacitors tend to leak. We've had several dead drives with motors spinning way to fast due to leaked electrolytic capacitors. If you have an old drive you like please inspect the caps from time to time or just replace them if you can.

It is also a good idea to run the KryoFlux seek calibration mode on the drive (-c2) before using it proper (in fact, in the GUI we're writing, a warning will bug you until you do it), and only use drives that can reliably access track 83 (i.e. support at least 84 tracks) - this is required for preservation, though not necessarily useful for casual use, i.e. just sector dumps.

There was one drive we had that was badly misaligned, and barely worked with any disks that had non-standard cell densities - this can be verified by dumping an HD disk from about track 70, and if no errors show up, it's ok.

I guess you're bound to get these problems interfacing with legacy tech...

[fiath]

Reading and Writing Disks Using an Emulator

Short Answer: Possible, yes. Practical? Probably not.

There shouldn't be anything technically stopping an emulator author from doing this other than it's going to be difficult to implement (for any device similar to ours). To be honest, I doubt they would bother. They would likely have to use a multi-threaded approach and do pre-caching of disk data. It's doable, but not very practical.

Also, since the timing of data transfer itself is on USB, there will be a delay, but the data itself would reflect the timing of the data correct to nanoseconds of resoluton... which is way better than what you'd have from a "real" FDC. However since the transfer of such data is not predictable due to how a USB bus works, plus the unpredictable workload of the host OS, it requires some effort to pull this off. One approach could be to speculatively pre-cache tracks that are requested by the program, like how streaming games would do, say on a PlayStation. It has to be done completely in parallel with the emulator's execution, with a slight delay the first time data is being requested. It's not trivial to implement that, and we find it unlikely any emulator author would do it, unless for the challenge itself.

Another factor that would question real-time use of a disk is that it will wear out your precious disks. They are pretty old now after all. This wouldn't happen if the disk was imaged only once in the first place... is it worth the risk? :)

Lastly, and obviously, we do not have write support in there yet.

[Harrison]

Thank you for the very detailed answers to my questions.

Very interesting information about drive compatibility, which I think are the same reasons for drive issues have had with the existing Catweasel controller in the past. Will you be releasing a full list of drive makes and models that are fully compatible once the hardware is finalised? Or is this something you would be interested in the community testing and creating?


Are you asking because you know someone who would be interested in this?

I do know a few different people who might be interested. However they would need to know the full details of the planned license and certification first to see if it was worth their while.

And I fully understand and support your need for quality control before anyone is allowed to use the KryoFlux name for a product they were manufacturing and selling themselves. This is a great idea in my view to ensure quality is delivered to the end user, and to maintain the whole projects reputation.

:thumbs:

[fiath]

Will you be releasing a full list of drive makes and models that are fully compatible once the hardware is finalised? Or is this something you would be interested in the community testing and creating?

That is a great idea on both counts. We could have a list on the website, with compatibility reports sent in by users.



I do know a few different people who might be interested. However they would need to know the full details of the planned license and certification first to see if it was worth their while.


Ah, excellent. Please get them to contact us. I am sure we can sort something out on very reasonable terms.

[Harrison]

The Kryoflux boards are finally going into production and are in Public Beta testing.

Full details can be found at http://www.kryoflux.com/

Preorders for the board are now open with the board costing €89 and a premium bundle consisting of the board, floppy drive cable, USB cable and PSU for €99. Registration of interest in purchasing one is on their site.

More details:

KryoFlux is a USB-based floppy controller designed specifically for reliability, precision, and getting low-level reads suitable for software preservation.




http://www.kryoflux.com/kf_features_thumb.png (http://www.kryoflux.com/kf_features.jpg) Prototype Features







http://www.kryoflux.com/kf_back_thumb.png (http://www.kryoflux.com/kf_back.jpg) Prototype Rear
Main Features


Read at lowest level possible - precisely sampling the magnetic flux transition timing. Custom formats? Copy protection? Encodings? KryoFlux doesn't care!
Save as raw stream, or export to common sector formats supporting: Acorn Electron, Apple, Amstrad CPC, Archimedes, Atari 8-bit, Atari ST, BBC, Commodore 64, Commodore Amiga, MSX, IBM PC, PC-8801, Sam Coupe, Spectrum, and many, many others.
Parallel export support. E.g. An Amiga/ST dual format disk can be written as raw stream, an ADF and an ST file, all at the same time during a single disk capture.
Intelligent software allows production of sector images for virtually all normal disks for systems containing a generic FM or MFM floppy controller. All those weird synthesiser sample disk formats should work right out of the box.
Read variable rate "zoned CAV" disks in a normal fixed rate drive.
RoHS and WEEE compliant.
High quality immersion gold coated boards produced in cooperation with, and assembled by, Olimex Ltd.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kjfT-F0GUl4

Technical Specs


Compatible with USB 1.0 (full-speed) and USB 2.0 (high-speed) ports.
Powered by USB interface (approx. up to 300mA). Drive requires it's own power.
Shugart (with extensions) drive interface. 34-pin dual-row header connector.
Developed with 3.5" Samsung SFD-321 and 5.25" Newtronics D509 drives and compatibles. Other types of drives and media (such as 3") currently under investigation.
Connection of two drives supported using a dual floppy cable, one can be accessed at a time.


Notes


Host software is currently Windows only (XP, Vista, Windows 7 in 32 and 64-bit flavours). Ports will follow.
Hardware is write-capable, but write support has not been implemented in the software yet. This is intended to come later.
Open file format, DRAFT, used to store raw flux reversal timing information - in development.
Software completely free for private, non-commercial use.
Easy to use graphical user interface - in development.
More details available here (http://www.softpres.org/glossary:KryoFlux).
Please feel free to contact us here (http://www.softpres.org/contact) if you have any questions.


Package Options

Ready-made KryoFlux hardware is not available today, but we will start taking orders soon.

You can register your interest in one of the following packages. By registering, you help us get an idea of numbers, and it also puts you at the front of the queue when KryoFlux hardware is available, as the first production run is likely to be limited. Prices may change depending on numbers registered. Prices include VAT.

The accompanying software is free for personal use only. Commercial or other use requires a license, please contact us (http://www.softpres.org/contact) for a quote.



Basic - 89 EUR

Board Only





Premium - 99 EUR

Board
Floppy Data Cable
USB Cable
Power Supply



Further details and registration is available at http://www.kryoflux.com/

[burns flipper]

Excellent!! And at only...£2.37 cheaper than a Catweasel Mk4+... :o

Wait for the Euro to go weak again!!

[Harrison]

It is a bit of a dilemma isn't it. Get a Catweasel MK4 Plus, or this new KryoFlux. The 2 are very different pieces of hardware.

I have the feeling the retro community might take to the KryoFlux a lot more than the Catweasel and start to explore developing the hardware and software further. If that happens then it could become very popular within the whole retro scene.

[burns flipper]

I'd rather have a Kryoflux than a Catweasel in my PC - simply because I can plug it in when I need it (so it's not taking up resources or drive names when I'm not using it, and I use my PC a LOT more than when I would be using it for ripping my PD disks), and gives a much better resulting disk image including the copy protection etc. I would also sell it once I had ripped all of my disks.

It made me laugh watching the promo video which said "other solutions utilise expensive PCI cards to interface a simple floppy drive to a computer"...yes, and the Kryoflux costs the same to interface a simple floppy drive to a computer...

[Demon Cleaner]

I'd rather have a Kryoflux than a Catweasel in my PC - simply because I can plug it in when I need it (so it's not taking up resources or drive names.
With the older Catweasel models, the drivers were started with the startup of your PC, the MkIV drivers are only started when you launch the application, thus terminated when closing it.

I don't either think that it needs a drive name, as you can only use the drive attached to the Catweasel controller, and when you quit the application, it removes the drive again. Don't even know if it shows one when you start it. Long time ago when I used it last, so I'm not 100% sure about it.

[fiath]

Yes, sadly we underestimated how much everything would cost. A low-volume manufacturing run, RoHS compliance, WEEE compliance (expensive!), postage, purchasing multiple production prototype boards for testing (which are hand made) - obviously hardware you can't correct later. That is not including all the other little costs and the time we have put into all this.

Still, it's all been very much worth it. We're really excited about how things are progressing. Hopefully well have more news soon!

[Harrison]

Definitely look forward to more information as you get it.

And don't worry, we very much appreciate that any hardware made for the retro scene is always going to cost more than mass produced hardware. Limited production runs and more exotic components will always push the price up, but the retro scene is not about making money, but enjoying the great old systems, and most still within the scene are willing to may a premium to obtain the custom make hardware to expand and improve their passion.

Keep up the great work, and I look forward to the next news update on your progress.

[mr.vince]

Hi, I intended to post more information and updates here, but as a new user I can't post links so... my first topic is a bit useless.

---------- Post added at 16:54 ---------- Previous post was at 16:54 ----------

Hi, there has been so much progress you have not seen since it was moved to a dedicated site & forums:

http://www.kryoflux.com

http://forum.kryoflux.com


It's working fine so far with many 3", 3.5" and 5.25" drives. More drives are under investigation.

We currently do have support for FM, MFM (this includes IBM PC, Atari ST and many others, including many musical instruments), AmigaDOS, C64, many Apple formats and Emulator I+II from E-MU Systems. More formats will be added.

One key feature is the option to do forensic dumps regardless of the format, so even alien formats can be read and archived and then processed later.

Writing, as Richard wrote, does work, we have tested the hardware and can confirm it can write data to disk. We just have not finished this part of the software, because other features (ports, GUI) seemed more important and we all do work full time besides doing this.

The software, including a GUI, is available for Windows (and yes, we *do* support 64bit :p) and Linux, with a Mac port in production. The software is completely free for private, non-commercial use = the community gets it for free. Pro-users need to get a commercial licence for it. These will help to fund further development.

Here's a quick overview:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GjEPo2pRGjY

Basic (older) schematics are included with the software, and we plan to release the current schematics (which do use bus drivers) with the next release.

We also have pre-built boards available, so you don't have to etch your own boards and start soldering. Many people that originally intended to built their own decided to go for a ready-made product when they saw the pitch used here (the components are *really* small).

Anyway, if you want a board, you can get them here: http://webstore.kryoflux.com/catalog

Cheers,
Chris

[Harrison]

Thank you for the update Chris. (btw, are the same person as the fiath account who posted above in this thread? or a different member of this project?)

It is great to see you have continued working hard on this project and it has renewed my interest. I will definitely be looking at the new site when i get time. :)

[mr.vince]

This is spooky. I thought I had replied to this thread... No, I am not Fiath. ;)