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View Full Version : Sign the UK road tax petition now!



Harrison
20th February 2007, 17:36
If you live in the UK and haven't signed the petition against Road Tax per mile then please do so now to help stop this coming into force!

http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/traveltax/

I've already signed it and I hope you will all do the same.

AlexJ
20th February 2007, 18:23
This one closes tonight so you better be quick!

Stephen Coates
21st February 2007, 18:55
I would have done, but I don't drive and don't intend to in the future, therefore I'm not really bothered about whether they charge for using certain roads.

I don't think it is a very good idea. It would prohably help cut down on the amount of traffic, but would end up very expensive for some people.

Submeg
21st February 2007, 21:58
Trust me, you definately don't want this. It is the most stupid thing to ever been thought up, ever.

AlexJ
22nd February 2007, 00:26
I would have done, but I don't drive and don't intend to in the future, therefore I'm not really bothered about whether they charge for using certain roads.

Do you use public transport for everything or do you get lifts from people? Consider if they're charging per mile, people may be far more reluctant to give you a lift if they know they're paying per mile (on top of the fuel cost).


It would probably help cut down on the amount of traffic, but would end up very expensive for some people.

No it wouldn't! No matter how much some people would try to brainwash you into thinking - for many people (>95% I'd guess) they drive because they have to, not because they want to. For most people it would just mean they get taxed more, which means they have less income which leads to them spending less on other things. The remaining people drive because they enjoy driving so a tax increase isn't going to make them stop.

Did the London charging scheme work? Not really, it just made it more congested outside the charging zone.

Then we get onto the 'Big Brother' style surveillance a black box system would provide. Oh and then, seems as speed = distance/time, it's working out distance as part of it's job and a clock is there if the price changes throughout the day, instant tickets issued when you creep 2-3 miles over the speed limit.

Finally, there's of course the ability for the govt. to fraud the scheme. A road close for roadworks that takes a bit longer to finish, and a diversion that's a little bit lengthier than necessary = $$$

Harrison
22nd February 2007, 01:11
I just have to ask this. Why don't you intend to drive in the future Steve? Granted that currently you are not old enough to drive, but don't you want to be able to later on? To have your own freedom to travel anywhere you like?

Public transport is quite limiting outside of main cities in the UK these days, so unless you intend to only ever venture within the public network of your local town/city you will find it much harder to get about without a car.

Also, how do you think the companies running the public services are going to be paying the pay per mile road taxes? They will increase the fares, and therefore you as a users of public transport will end up having to pay the tax anyway though your increased travel fares.

And as Alex said, how would it cut down on the amount of traffic? People need to use a car to get to work, mainly because there is no reliable public transport to get them to their place of work.

As an example, lets take the journey I would need to make to get to my place of work in the evenings. Currently I drive to work and it takes me around 25 to 30 minutes travelling a relatively straight journey down an A road and then a motorway. I leave at about 5:30pm and arrive at work just before 6:00pm

If I didn't have access to a car and tried to use public transport from my house I would have the following option. One bus route travelling to Southampton, which happens to not be where I work. If I was to take this bus, I would need to walk for 15 minute to catch the 4:10pm bus service and travel into Southampton. I would arrive in Southampton at around 4:50pm. I would then need to walk to the train station which would take about 10 minutes and catch a train out of Southampton to get to the station near where I work which would take about 25 minutes train journey, and then walk the rest of the way which would take another 15 minutes. Total travel time would start at aboit 3:50pm to walk to the bus stop for the initial part of the journey so it would take me about 2 hours to get there, compared to 25 minutes in a car. The cost of all of this travel by public transport would probably cost more than the petrol I would use.

This bus route also has its last bus service at 6:30pm which is OK for travelling from the house, but as I finish work around 10pm how would I get home? Taxi? Imagine the cost of that!

BTW, we already pay tac per mile as we are heavily taxed on petrol. Why should be have to pay even more. Would they drop the tax on petrol? no way! would they drop car tax? I doubt it!

And as Alex said, these back boxes tracking the movements of each car is big brother. We wouldn't have the freedom to do or go anywhere we liked without the ability for someone to track us. They wouldn't need speed camera either. Just go through the travel log of each car and fine the driver for each speeding offence.

Submeg
22nd February 2007, 01:21
Its bullsh*t, I cant believe anyone would be so stupid to introduce it. Maybe they should use positive reinforcement to decongest the roads.

AlexJ
22nd February 2007, 09:13
Yep the train would be absolutely useless.

For example for one journey I make regularly, it takes 1 hour 15 minutes to drive. The train takes 2 hours 18 minutes (provided everything runs on time!). Then to cap it off, the earliest train is at 7:05. This means it gets to the destination station at about 9:20. Useless when I need to be at my final destination (a 15 minute walk from the railway station or 5 minute+10 minute wait bus journey) by 9am.

Puni/Void
22nd February 2007, 10:36
Stephen wrote:


would have done, but I don't drive and don't intend to in the future, therefore I'm not really bothered about whether they charge for using certain roads.

I've never owned a car myself and have managed perfectly fine all these years. Since I've lived in various cities, there has always been the option of using public transportation. Most of the time, I've taken the bus to work. Have never had any problems with this, other than arriving a bit late from time to time, due to buses not arriving when they are supposed to.

Anyway, I agree with those of you who says that it is necessary to have a car if you live in a rural area. I've lived in the countryside myself, and believe me, you couldn't get much done if you didn't have a car.

It is probably easy for you to say that you won't drive now Steve, but just wait some years, and you will be begging for a car. It is comfortable, it grants you freedom (you can drive whenever you want), and you also save time. :) We are going to buy a car when we get back to Norway this year, and I'm so looking forward to that. No more waiting for the bus in -10 degrees celsius, freezing your ass off!

Harrison
22nd February 2007, 12:58
Can you already drive PG? Or will you need to learn once you have a car?

Puni/Void
22nd February 2007, 14:50
Never could afford taking the drivers license, so I will start attending courses now in April or around that time. It's very expensive, but I've saved up a bit of cash to get me started. :)

Stephen Coates
22nd February 2007, 18:29
I aggree that the idea of pay per mile is silly, but when I said it would cut down on traffic, I was refering to people not wanting to drive due to the increased costs.


Do you use public transport for everything or do you get lifts from people? Consider if they're charging per mile, people may be far more reluctant to give you a lift if they know they're paying per mile (on top of the fuel cost).

Ido gets lifts from my parents sometimes, but that is usually only because they are going there as well in the car or they are going past. e.g. I used to have a 3 mile journey to school. My mum used to take me in the car because she had to set off at around the same time as me and had to go past school to go to work. I do use the bus for this journey sometimes though and there is no problems with that as the busses are quite regular in my area.

As for learning to drive, or getting a driving licence, that is unlikely but possible. I think I'll make my decision about whether to learn to drive next year or wait until later when I'm 17 next year. I have just got a feeling that I wouldn't make a very good driver.

Actually getting car in the next few years is a big no though due to cost.

I quite like getting the bus or cycling though as you get plenty of fesh air and exercise with walking to the bus stop, and do not have to worry about creating any extra pollution.

Circumstances might be different for other people who do not have very good public transport but here the busses are good enough for my needs.

Harrison
23rd February 2007, 00:30
It is very true that in heavier populated areas people have a lot more choice regarding public transport, and in remote rural areas the public transport is verging on the non existent. For this reason there should be something in place to try and force people in urban areas to use public transport by making the driving of a car in such areas too expensive (congestion charges as in London) so this would work towards stopping cars in cities and more public transport being used.

But for this to work well a decent park and ride (bus, train, tram, underground etc) infrastructure needs to be in place in each city with such a scheme. For example, this does work in London as people living outside of the city tend to use a train to get into the city and then public transport to move around whilst there. This should be the standard everywhere, and in fact it did used to be before the governments and local councils of old started removing train lines, trams and other public services.


In fact I have never driven into central London. I always take the train and use public transport once there. This should be how it is in all cities throughout the UK, but sadly it isn't.

rayzorblue
23rd February 2007, 16:32
Cant wait till they charge u suckers per mile lol as long as it doesnt apply to bicycles :lol:

Although i hope there is a different charge for businesses and less congested roads as it will just be another example of British industry being destroyed this time by inflated road charges instead of overpriced fuel prices and tax.

Harrison
23rd February 2007, 17:02
I cannot see them charging differently for businesses, but they were stating that pricing would be dependant on the hour travelling and the road you are on. But this would just push drivers off of the motorways and back onto the A and B back roads, going through city centres, rather than using a ring road. Completely not what we want to see happen.

And we already pay tax by the mile via fuel taxes. This new idea is just another scheme the government have thought up to try and regain all the money they have wasted on other things or are losing due to issues that should not even exist.

The biggest of these issues at the moment has to be the supporting of immigrants who are using all of our public services for free as soon as they enter the country, as well as claiming income support and other benefits, and yet they have never contributed anything into our economy. If the government really wanted to find a way to sort out a lack of funds this is the issue they need to address! After all, if we went and lived in their countries would we get similar handouts for free?

TiredOfLife
24th February 2007, 10:48
Yes the freedom to travel anywhere.
And then when you do arrive, the freedom to drink coke.
That type of freedom, I can live without.
Give me ale.:guinness: :guinness: :guinness: :guinness: :guinness: :guinness: :guinness: :guinness: :guinness: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:

Submeg
25th February 2007, 00:06
Its all just another way to get money...in the end it doesnt solve the problem.You need to offer a better alternative if you want it to work