PS2 - improved over time

[Harrison]

Who remembers when the PS2 was first released and the number of discussions about "jaggies". And the Dreamcast ports, such as Grandia 2 and Skies of Arcadia, looking near identical but everyone saying the textures just didn't quite look as good as the Dreamcast originals.

Well how times have changed. Look at the current swan song of releases for the PS2 and then load up an old PS2 game and prepare to be blown away by the difference in quality. The contrast for many games is so big it can be hard to believe both games are running on the same hardware.

I was catching up on some older RPGs I've missed on the PS2 and got hold of Grandia Xtreme. It was released originally in 2002, so it's now over 4 years old. I loaded it up just to check it worked ok and the first think that hit me was how old, jaggy and blurry the graphics looked. A complete contrast compared to the current wave of RPGs such as Grandia 3, FF12 and Rogue Galaxy.

This definitely shows that the early PS2 defenders were correct. People saying the PS2 couldn't handly proper 3D anti aliasing and textures well can easily be proved wrong by looking at more recent titles. It has taken a long time to get the most from the PS2 over its long life, but it does go to show just how much power was hidden inside the hardware requiring time to truely learn and perfect.

Lets hope the PS3 is the same. The first wave of PS3 games already look amazing so if there is still a lot more power to unlock from the hardware as time goes on who knows how amazing the games released in 4 years time will look! I wonder if the High Def games on the next gen systems now will look as old in a couple of years time, as many of the first wave of PS2 games now do. :unsure:

Isn't it funny how when gaming hardware is state of the art we are blown away by the visiuals, but 5 years later we look back on the same games with fond memories only to be shocked because the game doesn't look quite as polished and great as it once did. Many PSX games are a good case in point. When the original Playstation was at its height we all thought how great the games looked. Now they look very blocky and old.

Thank god 2D sprite based games from the past don't age as badly as 3D graphics do. Many Amiga games look just as great as they always have. :)

[Teho]

Personally, I hated the look of the early 3d games. I don't just think they look horrible now, I thought they looked horrible back then too. I could never really understand why those clunky 3d figures with their horribly low-res textures could be so much in favour over the slick, smooth 2d graphics we were used to back then.

I did have the Playstation, but I was never impressed by it's graphics. Impressed by it's technical aspects of being able to push the 3d it did yes, but not by how it actually looked. Of course, gameplay counts for so much more so I thought the machine was awesome nonetheless.

But in my opinion, only with the following generation with the PS2 and Gamecube did we start to come back to the level of detail and beauty in 3d graphics that was left behind in 2d graphics so many years earlier. I always thought that the Playstation and Nintendo 64 era was a huge step backwards graphics-wise, and I'll always continue to think so.

[LowercaseE]

I think this is true of any system for the most part. As programmers learn over time how to best exploit a systems power, the games get better. This is quite clear even going back to the Atari and NES.

[Harrison]

There is one system that is the exception to that, the N64. Nintendo did such a great job creating Mario 64 and releasing it at the launch of the N64, and no other game really bettered it.

As for Playstation games looking horrible, it is true that many did look quite ugly, but others looked very impressive too. I thought the first Tomb Raider on the Playstation looked great and I sometimes would stand in areas of a level just looking around at the level design. I doubt the first Tomb Raider would look quite as good to me now if I were to play it again.

[Submeg]

Lol I don't think it would...just like the original Tekken looks disturbing

[Harrison]

The first Tekken was horrible. But the second one still looks OK, and the third was a huge improvement.

[J T]

There is one system that is the exception to that, the N64. Nintendo did such a great job creating Mario 64 and releasing it at the launch of the N64, and no other game really bettered it.


True, it looked good. But then with a bright, primary coloured fantasy world it was always going to look good despite any technical limitations of the system. I think that game is a good example of art direction and design being worth more to many than the ability to throw a gajillion textured anti aliased polygons and particles about (see also Zelda OoT, and the recent Twilight Princess).

[rayzorblue]

I concur JT the twighlight princess is a good example it looks great despite the obvious limitations of Nintendo's system and it will stand the test of time i would imagine.

[Harrison]

That is indeed true. Twighlight Princess shows that you can make a great looking game on the Wii, although it does look very similar on the Gamecube!

This is in stark contrast to many of the first wave of Wii releases with good really bad. Have you seen the Wii version of Farcry? To say it is bad is an understatement. If you didn't know you might think it was running on an N64 it is that bad!

[Submeg]

So Farcry is really bad? I was considering getting that :(

[Harrison]

FarCry is great on other systems. The PC version is still the best, with the Xbox and PS2 versions being pretty good. It's just the Wii version that is really bad which is strange when they managed to make decent versions for the last gen systems.

[Submeg]

Hmm....not good, but I'm still playing through Red Steel so got a bit of gaming to go.

[J T]

Red Steel is also a bit of a shocker, visually. It is quite good fun though once you become used to it. Just have to keep telling myself to play it like Time Crisis (duck and cover) rather than goldeneye/Perfect Dark (run in guns blazing and just destroy everything).

I've played a few hours on it and enjoyed it, but don't feel the pull to keep going back and playing more on it like I do Zelda.


That is indeed true. Twighlight Princess shows that you can make a great looking game on the Wii, although it does look very similar on the Gamecube!

It was developed for GCN, and pretty much just ported across but with the extra wiimote functionality and bits added on, from what I hear.

[Submeg]

Yea, tell me about it...I turned it on and thought the graphics looked no better than previous systems. I guess its ok, not the best....hope an awesome game comes out, otherwise I may consider selling it...

[Harrison]

You won't see any games looking all that much better than they did on the gamecube because its graphics capacity is not that much better, and also only supports standard definition progressive scan at best (no true HD support at all). Likewise its CPU is only about twice as fast as the Gamecubes (hence the low retail price of the system) so once it has processed all the motion information for a game it is probably left with about the power of a Gamecube.

The Problem with FarCry is that even the Gamecube could have coped with a decent version when you look at how good many 3D games for that system were; Metroid Prime being a good example. In contrast the Wii version of FarCry is extremely low resolution with blocking low resolution textures and a framerate that dips into single figures when enemies enter the screen. Not good at all, and it will not sell any Wii systems.

[J T]

The Wii is really not suited for multi-platform releases, certainly not at the moment and unlikely even in the future. It's not a graphics powerhouse and it was never designed to be one. I have to say that the graphics have been a mixed bag for me, some of them have looked terrible, but others have looked pretty sweet to me - a lot of it depends on the subject matter and how skilled the artists are at using what they've got to display the designs they have made.

Releasing Far Cry smacks of a money-making decision - "this machine is gonna sell well so let's just bung this game out for it regardless of the quality, it's bound to sell a few"

The Wii is probably only going to shine for games made specially for it, or by talented devs that can work the unique parts into their existing game/IP properly.





Note - I haven't played Far Cry on Wii, going on what other people say.

[Harrison]

Very true. Nintendo were looking at a system that would not cost much to manufacture, but at the same time deliver enough power to be able to deliver a fun gaming experience. The problem is that many people are graphics junkies and need the best of current graphics.

Looking back on the Gamecube, its games always looked pretty good. Its graphics abilities were better than the PS2 and not far behind the Xbox. And the Wii's are more powerful, even if only by some, so as long as games start to deliver gaming graphics of the quality seen on the Gamecube I cannot see many will moan. True, these will still not be able to compete side by side with the HD outputs of the PS3 and Xbox 360, but then it was never meant to, and as we have said before, the Wii is in a different market to the other two.

Maybe they changed the consoles name for a good reason. The only revolution was the control system. The actual hardware capabilities of the system are not really that much different to the last generation, so in comparison with the other two next gen systems the new Nintendo console is Wii!

But does that matter? Does the best always need to rely on the best hardware, the fastest processor or the most 3D graphics it can push? Of course not. The gameplay is all that matters, and this is Nintendo, the masters of gameplay.

It will still lose out when it comes to some genres, but for pure enjoyment and multiplayer it will be hard to beat.

[Submeg]

The only problem is that there are no games out here!What the hell is wrong with Nintendo?I have been waiting 4 weeks for a controller.....what games are fun on the Wii? I have Raymans and Red Steel, what else is more pushed toward the fun and entertainment side?

[J T]

Woah, easy there, sadly as it's such a popular console it can be hard to get wiimotes. Good to have a popular console though, things are looking good for the big N right now.

If you're into Zelda, Twilight Princess is a must.

Wario Ware is ace, top fun.

Wii Play is fun, if short.

Monkey Ball is alright, not brilliant though

[Submeg]

I've seen the ads for Wario, looks alright. Not a Zelda fan...sort of missed out on that one. Wii Play I will be getting with my new remote so its all good. It's good fun, but its of limited lifespan....hopefully there will be something that will get me hooked.

[J T]

Yeah, there's not too much more than that out at the moment. I have Need for Speed Carbon but that's still wrapped up - I really should try it I guess :p

On the near horizon, Trauma Centre sounds good, elebits looks like fun and I eagerly awaiting Mario Galaxy. Smash brothers should be a laugh also. Haven't really read much else about upcoming games though, so hopefully there will be a few pleasant surprises.