PDA

View Full Version : 3.1 Kick Roms



loopy
30th November 2008, 00:58
What would be a fair price for a set of (2) 3.1 kick roms for A1200.
Does GBP $ 10.99 sound a fair deal.
If I were to buy these can the old 3.0 roms (1 anyway and which one?) be used in my A600?.
Maybe then I could use the 2 1/2" harddrive out of the A1200 (wb3.0) in the A600? The A600 doesn't have a harddrive as yet and has 2.04 roms and workbench.
yhanks
loopy

Tiago
30th November 2008, 15:30
10.99 was +/- what i paid for mine.
Yes you can put the old 3.0 in A600

http://wiki.classicamiga.com/A600_Upgrade_Options

woody.cool
1st December 2008, 10:49
10.99 was +/- what i paid for mine.
Yes you can put the old 3.0 in A600

http://wiki.classicamiga.com/A600_Upgrade_Options
You CANNOT put 3.0 ROMs in an A600.

The 3.0 ROMs was specifically desinged for the A1200 and A4000. The 3.0 ROMs use 2 chips, where as the A600 uses only one Kickstart ROM chip/socket.
A 3.0 ROM does not exist for any other Amiga. Only 3.1 ROMs.

However, this doesn't stop you getting a Kickstart 3.1 ROM chip designed for the A500, A500+, A600 and A2000 as these use the same ROM chips as the A600.

3.0 ROMs from an A1200 are only of any use if you have another A1200 that has faulty or missing ROMs.

Tiago
1st December 2008, 11:29
10.99 was +/- what i paid for mine.
Yes you can put the old 3.0 in A600

http://wiki.classicamiga.com/A600_Upgrade_Options
You CANNOT put 3.0 ROMs in an A600.

The 3.0 ROMs was specifically desinged for the A1200 and A4000. The 3.0 ROMs use 2 chips, where as the A600 uses only one Kickstart ROM chip/socket.
A 3.0 ROM does not exist for any other Amiga. Only 3.1 ROMs.

However, this doesn't stop you getting a Kickstart 3.1 ROM chip designed for the A500, A500+, A600 and A2000 as these use the same ROM chips as the A600.

3.0 ROMs from an A1200 are only of any use if you have another A1200 that has faulty or missing ROMs.

Sorry forr the bad info. I thought if the 3.1 work, the 3.0 would also work...

Harrison
1st December 2008, 13:28
@ Tiago. You also cannot use a Kickstart 3.1 rom from an A1200 in an A600. The A600 uses a single kickstart rom chip, whereas the A1200 uses two kickstart rom chips. Also you have to buy kickstart 3.1 rom chips that are specific to the model of Amiga you own. You cannot use all 3.1 rom chips in all Amigas.

For future reference the 3.1 rom chips came in a version that works in the A500, A500+, A600 and A2000. A version for the A1200, a version for the A4000 and a version for the A4000T. All are different and will only work in that specific system.

woody.cool
1st December 2008, 13:48
Just to clarify:

Single Chip ROMs (interchangable between each other)
A500
A500+
A600 (inc. A600HD)
A1500
A2000

Two Chip Roms:
A1200 (inc. A1200HD)
A4000
A4000T
(not sure if A1200 and A4000 ROMs are interchangeable)

Special arrangements with ROM chips:
A3000 (& A3000T) - use ROM tower! Some early models has Kickstart 1.4 Alpha 15 ROM and boot 1.3 or 2.04 from Hard Disk, others have 2.04 ROM.
CD32 - can only take specific CD32 3.1 ROMs - it is basically Kickstart 3.1 with CD32 Extended Kickstart ROM.
CDTV - quite odd indeed, some units can take an A500/A600 2.04 ROM, but not all of them. Also has CDTV Extended ROM. The CDTV Extended ROM is also present in the A570 CD-ROM drive addon for A500/A500+.
A1000 - uses an 8KB Boot ROM, which prompts for Kickstart disk and in turn loads Kickstart into a special 256KB area of memory - technically this memory is WOM (Write Once Memory) and the Kickstart stays there until power-down. Because it's only 256KB you can only use the following ROMs: 1.0, 1.1, 1.2, 1.3 and possibly 1.4 Alpha (but unsure of this)

Hopefully this will help all those thinking of upgrading Kickstart.

Some notes: on the A600, the ROM should be a 2.05 ROM (internal vesrion 37.300) or above to be able to access the PCMCIA slot and Internal HDD - early A600s had 37.299 ROM and some were roumoured to have 37.175 (which is 2.04) - these models weren't able to access Internal HDD and PCMCIA slot. This is also true if you happen to put a 1.3 (or 1.2) ROM in an A600 (why would you want to do that?)

Tiago
1st December 2008, 14:27
@ Tiago. You also cannot use a Kickstart 3.1 rom from an A1200 in an A600. The A600 uses a single kickstart rom chip, whereas the A1200 uses two kickstart rom chips. Also you have to buy kickstart 3.1 rom chips that are specific to the model of Amiga you own. You cannot use all 3.1 rom chips in all Amigas.

For future reference the 3.1 rom chips came in a version that works in the A500, A500+, A600 and A2000. A version for the A1200, a version for the A4000 and a version for the A4000T. All are different and will only work in that specific system.

Check the wiki, then, it says "This can be upgraded to Kickstart 3.1" on http://wiki.classicamiga.com/A600_Upgrade_Options
is it wrong or am i not getting the meaning? My english sometimes gets me some problems:hmmm:

Harrison
1st December 2008, 15:22
@Tiago.

I think you have got a bit confused. You can upgrade an A600 to Kickstart 3.1, but you cannot use a Kickstart 3.1 rom chip from an A1200 in an A600 as they are not compatible. You must use the single chip version of kickstart 3.1 which can be used in any of the OCS and ECS Amiga models (A500, A500+, A600, A2000).

This is because of the hardware differences between the different Amiga models.


(not sure if A1200 and A4000 ROMs are interchangeable)No they are not. You need the kickstart 3.1 rom specifically for an A1200 or A4000. This is because the A1200 version needs the PCMCIA support, whereas the A4000 needs the Zorro support, plus other additions.

BTW, thanks to your helpful listing of the KS3.1 roms. I've used it to add an extra section to the CA Wiki page on kickstart roms to explain upgrading to 3.1 a bit clearer. You can take a look at http://wiki.classicamiga.com/Kickstart_Roms_Explained#Upgrading_to_Kickstart_3.1_ROMs

woody.cool
1st December 2008, 16:38
(not sure if A1200 and A4000 ROMs are interchangeable)No they are not. You need the kickstart 3.1 rom specifically for an A1200 or A4000. This is because the A1200 version needs the PCMCIA support, whereas the A4000 needs the Zorro support, plus other additions.

BTW, thanks to your helpful listing of the KS3.1 roms. I've used it to add an extra section to the CA Wiki page on kickstart roms to explain upgrading to 3.1 a bit clearer. You can take a look at http://wiki.classicamiga.com/Kickstart_Roms_Explained#Upgrading_to_Kickstart_3.1_ROMs

Aaaah yes! I remember now. A slight ommision from Commodore, they missed out workbench.library from the A4000's 3.0 ROM - this is the only version that has a workbench.library in the LIBS: folder (apart from AmigaOS 3.5 and later)

The A4000 3.0 Install disk puts it there.

On top of that, there's nothing to drive the PCMCIA slot in the A4000's ROM.

If you want, I can add kickstart revision numbers (e.g 37.175 for 2.04)

Harrison
1st December 2008, 16:56
That would be very useful to expand the Kickstart versions summary table I have already started on the Wiki. If you take a look at the wiki page at http://wiki.classicamiga.com/Kickstart_Roms_Explained#Kickstart_versions_summary you will see the table

It would be great to expand this further to show the different revisions of each kickstart rom released with each model to make a reference lookup table. I will begin by add a revisions column to the table ready for the revisions to be added.

Would you like to be able to edit the wiki directly? If so register on the wiki with your same username and I will give you editor permission.

woody.cool
1st December 2008, 17:07
I was also thinking of maybe a small Notes field should be added so we could include important information such as:

1.2 - 37.180 - A500, A2000, A1000 - 1987 - 256KB - NOTE: AutoConfig doesn't work in this version. Hard Drives cannot boot directly.

or

2.05 - 37.299, 37.300, 37.350 - A600, A600HD - 1990 - 512KB - NOTE: Requires 37.300 or above to boot from internal HDD.

What do you think?
Also, Workbench versions designed to be run on these?

Also noticed the ommision of 1.4 Alpha - this is an important Kickstart in my eyes as quite a few A3000s used it as an internal ROM which then booted 1.3 or 2.04 depending on what you selected. It is possible to get these A3000s to boot 1.4 - just hold both mouse buttons during a cold boot, when the Kickstart choice menu appears, don't choose a Kickstart, instead click on the area where you'd expect to find the Close gadget (there's a hidden close button) - this will boot into 1.4 Alpha ROM. Be very warey of this, you'll get error messages galore as it uses the hard drive partition that 2.04 is c onfigured to use.

Harrison
1st December 2008, 17:45
Yes, all great ideas. I will expand the table when I get time later tonight with an "additional information" field to add any additional notes to the table.

And we can expand the table and split each kickstart rom version as I've done already for the 2.04 and 2.05 rom revisions.

And I was thinking that for the revisions of each rom version, to include that information in the upgrades pages for that model of Amiga and just link to the related pages to keep the table from becoming overloaded with information. See what I've done in the table for the A600 with links for the revisions to see what I mean.

woody.cool
1st December 2008, 19:27
So far, I like what you've done.

One thing, the information on the A600 and the 37.300 ROM.

Although documentation states that 37.300 can only accept a 40MB HDD, my A600HD has 37.300 and has a bigger HDD - I've got a 1.2GB HDD in my 37.300 A600HD. However, my boot partition (Workbench) is only 40MB.

I wonder whether the limitiation is actually on the boot partition and not the total HDD size.

tonyyeb
1st December 2008, 20:43
Special arrangements with ROM chips:
A3000 (& A3000T) - use ROM tower! Some early models has Kickstart 1.4 Alpha 15 ROM and boot 1.3 or 2.04 from Hard Disk, others have 2.04 ROM.


Just to clarify this point, it depends on the A3000 mobo revision as to whether a ROM tower is required. Mine didn't need one, I think it was a rev9.1.

woody.cool
1st December 2008, 21:21
Special arrangements with ROM chips:
A3000 (& A3000T) - use ROM tower! Some early models has Kickstart 1.4 Alpha 15 ROM and boot 1.3 or 2.04 from Hard Disk, others have 2.04 ROM.


Just to clarify this point, it depends on the A3000 mobo revision as to whether a ROM tower is required. Mine didn't need one, I think it was a rev9.1.
I'm not sure with mine, I've not pulled it apart to have a look. My A3000 has a 2.04 ROM (and not the 1.4 Alpha)

tonyyeb
1st December 2008, 21:25
Well I had 1.4 ROMs originally an got some 3.1's. Neither needed a ROM tower. Both worked fine.

Harrison
1st December 2008, 22:44
What actually is a ROM tower?

woody.cool
2nd December 2008, 09:43
What actually is a ROM tower?
It's like an adaptor!?! Never actually seen one, I haven't had my A3000 open and looked at the ROMs yet.

tonyyeb
2nd December 2008, 11:11
For those who have not seen one:

http://www.amiga-hardware.com/download_photos/a3000_romtower.jpg

woody.cool
2nd December 2008, 12:24
You beat me to it, I was looking for a pic on the net :lol:

Like I say, I have had my A3000 apart enough - I've only installed Zorro cards and put HDD in it, both of which don't involve taking the metal piece out covering up that side of the motherboard. I'm quite OK with Kickstart 2.04 that is currently in mine.

Harrison
2nd December 2008, 12:33
So what does the rom tower actually do? Does it allow 2 different roms like a rom switcher? Or is it something different?

tonyyeb
2nd December 2008, 13:12
Can you soft kick to 1.3? Is it the 1.4 ROMs? If so you can replace the kickstart file in DEVS for a 3.1 one and boot to that instead of 2.04. I did that before getting real 3.1 ROMs.

woody.cool
2nd December 2008, 13:40
Can you soft kick to 1.3? Is it the 1.4 ROMs? If so you can replace the kickstart file in DEVS for a 3.1 one and boot to that instead of 2.04. I did that before getting real 3.1 ROMs.
If you have 1.4 ROMs, you can place a 3.1 ROM in DEVS and call it Kickstart (so hence DEVS:Kickstart) and the A3000 can then boot this, however, it needs to be an A3000 version of the 3.1 ROM designed for this behaviour (usually called a SuperKickstart)

tonyyeb
2nd December 2008, 13:55
Errr didn't you just repeat what I had typed? :unsure:

woody.cool
2nd December 2008, 14:07
Errr didn't you just repeat what I had typed? :unsure:

Not from what I can see, unless I mis-interpreted what you typed :embarrass:

tonyyeb
2nd December 2008, 14:30
Not from what I can see, unless I mis-interpreted what you typed :embarrass:

Well I intended what you typed lets just say that! :cool:

woody.cool
2nd December 2008, 14:53
:lol:

Harrison
2nd December 2008, 17:03
:lol: It's all good info we can use in the Wiki. :)