What does Amiga 1200 (T) mean?

[Jasybee2000]

Hi,

I Would really appreciate it very much if some of you here who knows their stuff in the Amiga scene would clarify what the T would mean on 'Amiga 1200 (T)' when it reads like this as a main title of an ebay listing:

'AMIGA APOLLO 1260 50Mhz Turbo accelerator card for Amiga 1200 (T)'

Sorry for the nature of this blunt request but I am just trying to prove a point to an unhappy ebayer at the moment.

I would appreciate it very much if someone here could just point out what the (T) means.

Sorry if this is bluntly obvious to some of you but it has to be done!

Cheers.

J.

[Teho]

It stands for "Tower". It means that it's been installed into a tower cabinet, which is very handy if you intend to do a lot of expanding as there's much better space in one.

Of course, many e-bay sellers have no clue and will happily label things wrong. I'd want to see a picture or ask the seller if the 1200 really is a tower conversion before going for it.

[burns flipper]

The accelerator will fit in a standard A1200, there's no need to have it in a tower.

[Jasybee2000]

Hi again,

Basically what I am referring to is an Apollo 1260 card I sold on ebay recently. I stated on the auction listing that it was for Amiga 1200 (T).

Which I would of thought was obvious that it meant Tower to potential buyers. The listing also stated that it was removed from an Amiga Tower system. It also clearly stated that it had 2x32meg simms, and it also had a very big picture of the second simm socket that sticks out.

Anyway it was bought by someone in Italy for £364. Once he received it, he immediately filed an 'Item significantly not as described dispute on me' and as a result of that I now have a -£314 Pay Pal balance because there is a temporary hold on the amount.

He claims he wanted to put it in a standard A1200 case and because of the second socket and the fact that I didn't say on my listing that it was for a Tower only (Which I think I did!).

I think its absolutely ridiculous he's done this and it looks like he's trying to con me out of my board and get his money back. I told him that even though it wasnt my fault I would give him some money back as a partial refund as a goodwill gesture but now he's saying hes bidding on a tower case and if he doesn't get it he wants a full refund?

One minute he's complaining about it and then says he will accept a partial refund, but when I tried to make him an offer he came out with the excuse regarding the Tower case! :(

What do you think? If the worst comes to the worst i'm trying to get some unbiased opinions here so I can argue my point across to Pay Pal as I don't believe I am in the wrong. I've done all I can and at the end of the day I could do without all this hassle.

Here is the item that I listed that he bought so you can see my point:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=170256276202

Also i've noticed this board on eBay which doesn't even say Amiga 1200 T or anything yet it has the second socket so this one looks like its for a tower as well doesn't it?

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230293692717

Note that there is far less info on this than one mine? I don't think i'm at fault here. I think the guy should of asked me first what do you think? He was even asking me questions after he had paid for it, like what voltage is it etc?

Would appreciate your help on this one, as its going to be obvious hes going to try to escalate this to a claim to try to get his money back. I just want to try to show Paypal that he is in the wrong.

Cheers.

J.

One other thing:

Also would I be correct in assuming that if you removed the ram from the 2nd socket and broke off the plastic holding clips that stick out, this would then fit into a standard A1200 case?

It looks like it would be slim enough then to go under the keyboard. What do you think?

Thanks in Advance for your help.

Cheers,

J.

[burns flipper]

The "(T)" convention isn't official nomenclature, it's one that has arisen in the Amiga community since third party companies have created tower units. You can't really assume everyone will know what it means, they may also call it something different if at all in Italy. If you haven't specified it will only fit in a towered case (I can't access eBay from work) I'd say having the "(T)" in the title probably isn't enough. I agree that they should have asked about it beforehand if they didn't understand the term. And I don't believe he can keep the item under dispute - if you refund, he has to return it before.

[Buleste]

Whilst to anyone with any common sense and knowledge of the Amiga would know that the (T) stands for tower (although with it being in Brackets it could be misconsrued as working in a 1200 and a 1200T) when selling on eBay you should always list to the lowest denominator i.e. complete eejits who have no idea of what they're buying but they're rare so they get it anyway. I personally would say if you return the card you will give a full refund otherwise he can lump it. The ebay system is now so rigged in the buyers favour that sellers have to accept that sometimes things aren't going to go their way. The other option is if the buyer feels confident enough that they can do it buy them a angled SIMM socket form AmigaKit here (http://amigakit.leamancomputing.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=25&products_id=594) and they can try fit that themselves. It still will not fit fully into a desktop 1200 but it would be at a better angle. If the buyer does decide for the full refund then try contacting the 2nd highest bidder for a 2nd offer so at least you get some of the money back (Just make sure that they realise it's for a tower system though before they buy).

[Jasybee2000]

What about clipping those plastic clips on the 2nd socket? surely then it will be slim enough to fit into the standard desktop case? Obviously the socket would be rendered inoperable and you would only have 32meg ram.

Can someone confirm that? As that would be an option for him. I know that the Simm socket connector is the same height as the 68060 CPU. So in theory it should work right?

The problem with getting it sent back is that he could do the usual hustle which is to contact his credit card company and do a chargeback and then keep the item stating that he sent it when he didn't. The problem with getting it sent back is that he could deliberately damage it with static electricity or swap it over with another one that doesn't work. Paypal wont care if it's DOA or not, but just that the item was returned.

This is such a nightmare. I now wish I had never sold it on ebay now!

:thumbsdown2:

Cheers,
J.

[Buleste]

If it comes back broken then you are well within your rights not to refund him. You still have rights over the refund. If you break of the clips then yes it will fit into a 1200 but as you say the second RAM slot will be useless so it would be pointless. You've offered him an out, Return and refund, if he doesn't take it or breaks the card then F*ck him. You have to trust that the guys just an amature who didn't know what he was buying and is showing no malice. TBH i think the guy is just wanting some money back because he realises he overpaid for the board which is his fault so screw him.

[Harrison]

Welcome to the lovely world of the NEW and ?improved? "biased towards buyers" ebay. I recently had a run in with the dispute part of ebay and could not believe how biased towards the buyer the whole site has become. Surely the sellers are the ones who keep the site running. Without them the buyers would not have anything to buy! Right?

In my case I posted an item to the US. The item somehow got held up at customs. The buyer contacted me to say that the item hadn't arrived, so I traced the item with the tracking number and saw it was being held up. So I let the buyer know. But instead of accepting this they filed a dispute, and much like you the amount for the item was instantly frozen in my Paypal account and it was -£65 or something similar. The dispute system is now completely controlled by the actions of the buyer and the seller has hardly any way to argue their point in the process. It is not good. It did eventually arrive and he then lifted the dispute, but for a time I was really worried I was going to lose the money and the item.

Regarding your sale. In my view you sold him the item and it was as stating. It arrived safely to him and in working condition. The fact he hasn't done his homework and discovered it was only designed for a tower case is not your problem and he should not be allowed to dispute it. You should have sold the card using AmiBay. Completely free and most buyers on AmiBay know their stuff so you don't get such hassles.

I hope you can sort this out without losing money on it.

[Jasybee2000]

Hi Harrison!

Thanks for your words of support there. I can see you know what I am going through as you've been through it yourself. I just cant believe this idiot is behaving like this. It seems he's been in two minds about it from the word go. I mean he didn't ask me any questions prior to bidding, landed a huge bid on it and won it! Then after he bought it he asks me in Italian is it 3.3V or 5V? I mean what difference does that make? Is he an idiot? Ah but he did ask me if the card could be used in conjunction with a Phase 5 gfx add on card, and I basically said no. Anyone who looks at my listing will see that his claim is a load of BS!

Also what's the deal with him saying he will accept a part refund one minute and then when I offer it to him he says it depends on the outcome of a tower case he's currently bidding on? :hmmm:

You can't drag disputes on for your own ends can you? Which is what he appears to be doing. Also if he wanted the single slot version that would fit into a standard A1200 its simple! Just break off the plastic Simm clips and use 32meg on it! What a idiot!

I have decided that if he tries to force a refund I'm going to wait for it to come back to me first and then i'm going to fully test it. If it doesn't work he gets no refund and if pay pal want to take me to court over the £364 (because he's not getting the post charges back oh no!) then so be it I guess! I suppose I will have to get a solicitor involved then.

I have alerted to these facts that he will only get a refund if it comes back working because thats the way it went out. I've told him the £50.00 refund is the better option so maybe i've given the idiot something to think about. I just pray to god that he understands the handling procedures for ESD devices!!!! :hmmm:

It is pretty obvious to me that he isnt after a tower case, but he's bidding on this in order to try and get it cheaper so he can get a refund for mine and chuck it back!

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200255747989

I don't see any tower cases on ebay really that he could buy!

What do you think? Isn't this called refund by deception?

Cheers,

J.

[Harrison]

It definitely sounds like he is trying it on. For me I would probably steer clear of selling hardware to anyone in another country these days due to not being able to do as much if things like this happen.

You do have to be very careful in item descriptions and try to give as much clear information as possible. I think you really should have stated in the auction that "the card will only fit in a towered A1200 and will not fit into a standard desktop A1200 without modification." That would have covered you against the problems you now face. Sadly there isn't much you can do at this late stage.

The other bad thing is that ebay/paypal can just refund the buyer from your paypal account without warning and you then end up minus that amount from your account, and can end up without the item or the money. This happened to my wife a couple of years ago. She sold a Nokia mobile to someone for £50 and the guy was pressuring her to post it to him as quickly as possible, so she posted it with the last post on Saturday at the delivery office, so could not get proof of posting. He then claimed the phone never arrived and paypal just refunded him the money from her paypal account and she wasn't able to do anything about it. She she lost the phone and the money. Bad!

Ebay is not good these days when a buyer is dishonest as sellers just don't have any powers to fight their side of any arguments and disputes.

[StuKeith]

Not always true (but 99%) I once ordered a GF4600TI from ebay. Once it turned up I found it was a std GF4200 and so far from the spec sold. I scanned a picture of the card with the sticker and it clearly shows that it is a 4200 and not a 4600TI.

I gave all the information to paypal and they still sided with the seller! There are also annoying me now, by trying to make me upgrade to a business account when I dont want one!

[Jasybee2000]

UPDATE

Hi All,

It appears that my perseverance and patience has paid off! I managed to get the idiot to drop the dispute after 4 long days, but sadly at a cost! A £50 refund! Grrrrr! :no:

Still, I suppose that's okay seeing as he was mad enough to pay almost £400 including the postage for the Apollo 1260. I managed to box him into a corner as he was trying to mess me about and kept changing his mind about closing the dispute but I just warned him of my rights and I think I put it into very clear and concise terms. I think I worded as well as a solicitor would have. I think maybe he thinks I am a solicitor or something lol! :smartass:

Still, I've learned a very valuable lesson here, and that's to treat every buyer on ebay like they are idiots and overdo it on the information and leave no loopholes for twisting things as this guy has definitely twisted it anyway. Still, i'm happy with the result as I still got a very good price for the card. I also presume that now hes closed the dispute he can't reopen it for that item? I think i'm going to stop him bidding on any other items I sell in future just in case as I dont want this happening again. :thumbsdown2:

Thank you all for your unbiased opinion and your support. I feel that I could not have kept calm and achieved this without your help! :yesyes:

Thanks guys! :lolup:

Jason.

[Buleste]

Glad to hear it worked out for you.

[Harrison]

Yes. I'm glad you managed to sort it out without losing too much money. Still annoying that you have to give him £50 back though.