New hardware platform for OS4!!!

[Harrison]

Yes, you read this correctly. Finally new hardware is being made to run OS4.1!!! :o

This is being made by acube systems. The same company who are making the minimig. You can check their site out at http://www.acube-systems.biz/eng/index.php

The hardware is the Sam440ep (http://www.acube-systems.biz/eng/sam.php) Using an Soc AMCC 440ep processor (PPC processor and System on a Chip, produced my AMCC under license from IBM), with an integrated DDR memory controller (512MB max), PCI controller, Flash memory device control, USB 1 and 2 controller, Ethernet, serial ports etc... and in a miniITX form factor with integrated ATI Radeon Mobility M9 with 64MB graphics memory. So it looks like we will finally have some hardware that will be worth running OS4 on.

And this is only the first motherboard to be mad. They are planning to make better models under the SAM name.

The current promotional prices for the board until thr end of September are:

€332 for a 533Mhz CPU, 512MB Ram, ATI Radeon M9 64MB and Audio 5.1
€489 for a 667MHz CPU, and everything else the same.

[Puni/Void]

My god! :o I can't believe that something is finally happening after all those years of waiting. :smokin:

Do you have any new info on the lawsuit between Amiga Inc. and Hyperion, Harrison? Seems like they must have come to some kind of agreement.

Anyway, this is great, great news! :biggrindance:

Does any of you have any plans to purchase the new hardware?

[Buleste]

The SAM440ep has been around for a while but i'd be amazed if Amiga Inc let this go without a fight. Mind you with prices for just the Mobo starting at 332 euros on special offer without the OS it'll be at least 450 euros for a MOBO and OS not including drives. With a case and say 150GB HDD it'll be 600 euros for the lowest spec CPU mimimum. Don't think i'm going to rush out just yet.

[Puni/Void]

The SAM440ep has been around for a while but i'd be amazed if Amiga Inc let this go without a fight. Mind you with prices for just the Mobo starting at 332 euros on special offer without the OS it'll be at least 450 euros for a MOBO and OS not including drives. With a case and say 150GB HDD it'll be 600 euros for the lowest spec CPU mimimum. Don't think i'm going to rush out just yet.

What do you think will happen if Amiga Inc. decides to put their foot down? Can they hinder the sales?

As for the prices, it is of course a lot of money, but if you compare it to the prices on classic second-hand Amiga hardware, it's not that bad in my opinion.

[Harrison]

I don't think they could stop production and sale of the actual hardware, could they? Nothing unique or specifically Amiga based in that as far as I can tell. But they might be able to block OS4.1 being sold for it I suppose.

[Puni/Void]

Hopefully everything will turn out OK. Let's hope that Amiga Inc. doesn't cause any major trouble.

Are you thinking about purchasing the board and the OS, Harrison? I know you're having a clear out these days, but isn't it a little bit tempting to get a machine to run OS 4.1 on? ;)

[Buleste]

They wouldn't be able to stop sales of the hardware as it's been on sale for a while. However they would be able to block OS4.1 being supplied with the hardware and the release of the modifications required to run OS4.1 on the hardware.

Whilst the price is comparable to full classic Amiga systems the OS and thne hardware will not have the compatability or the versitility of classic Amiga hardware. Save money and see what NatAmi is like. It'll be more worthwhile.

Besides if you want to run OS4 get a BPPC and a Bvision and run OS4 Classic

[Harrison]

I'm not personally that interested in the PPC or OS4 branch of Amiga hardware and software. I'm more than happy playing around with classicamiga Amiga stuff.

I'm also interested in seeing what the NatAmi is like.

[Tiago]

I also have more interest in natami then this one, but it could be a nice hardware.

But a minimum of 332 euros is a bit expansive....
What can you run from the 68k software in OS4.1? And games?

[Harrison]

OS4 isn't compatible with 68K software. You therefore have to rely on 68K JIT emulation and then only software that doesn't need the original custom chip set will probably run. So games are out of the question.

Obviously you also have other OSs you could install on a PPC based computer such as Linux. Not sure about MorphOS2. Will then run on this hardware?

[Buleste]

MorphOS2 should run. There is also a version of E-UAE for OS4 so if you wanted to run amiga software that is the other option. Most of the later games will run but no WHDLoad (unless in eUAE). TBH IMO i cannot see any reason to but the SAM other than as something to play around with but then if you want to do that get a BPPC and run OS4 classic. It won't be as fast but it'll be more versatile.

[Harrison]

Very true, but we are all really just running Amigas these days to play around anyway. Any investment in OS4 is expensive for anyone who doesn't yet have the hardware capable of running it.

For classic Amigas you would need to pay out at least £300 for a decent PPC accelerator these days from ebay, and then you would need to do a tower conversion, and either source a Blizzard graphics card, or upgrade to a mediator or similar PCI solution and then a graphics card. In total this could end up costing much more than the SAM.

Granted a classic Amiga upgraded to PPC does have the advantage of being able to run classic 68K software as well as OS4 and other PPC software. However with the SAM you could just have an A1200 too for older software and games.

[Buleste]

Lets see the choice is :- A towered 1200 with either an 040 or 060 with a PPC and a graphics card running OS4.0 and 3.9 or a stock 1200 running 3.5 and a SAM running OS4.1. I'd go for the tower every time.

[burns flipper]

"Hyperion Entertainment VOF and ACube Systems SRL are pleased to announce that they have entered into an OEM license agreement which will allow ACube to offer its customers an OEM version of Hyperion's AmigaOS 4.1 operating system for their SAM440 range of motherboards."

[Buleste]

AmigaKit are showing as preordering the SAM http://amigakit.leamancomputing.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=840 for £439.99 for the fastest version (mobo only) and the SAM version of 4.1 http://amigakit.leamancomputing.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=839 for £99.99 total £539.98 for a MOBO and OS with no PSU or tower, no drives, no keyboard, no mouse. So if you make it into a complete system with a half decent Hard drive it's going to cost at least £700.00. Still prefer the towered 1200 option.

[Harrison]

Buying from AmigaKit would work out almost twice the price of the € price listed on the Acube website!

[Buleste]

By the time it's released it's looking like the £ will that weak it'll be on about a 1:1 ratio. Besides ACube are based in Italy so they'll probably ship the boards by road and you know what Italian roads are like and i'd expect the SAM is a delicate piece of kit so they'd loose half of them in the journey through fear.;)

[Stephen Coates]

If I had lots of money going spare, I would buy one.

[amigakit.com]

Buying from AmigaKit would work out almost twice the price of the € price listed on the Acube website!

This is simply not true- I have to reply to this. What would customers think if we charged double the recommended retail price?

Our price for SAM440ep is £439.99 INCLUDING VAT

ACubes price is EUR 465 EXCLUDING VAT which is at todays exchange rate £367 + with Italian vat @ 20%= £440 INCLUDING VAT from Acube

[Harrison]

Hi there and welcome to classicamiga. Thanks for joining in this discussion. We are all big fans of the service you are providing the Amiga community.

Now to the SAM. I was basing my prices on the current ACube promotion running for September, which is €332. I didn't however know about Italian TAX being at 20%. That would bring that price up to €398.4 which would exchange to £315 including VAT. Therefore making it about £125 more expensive through AmigaKit.com

However, don't get me wrong. It is great to see you being able to offer the SAM to UK and other countries. Keep up the great work.

[amigakit.com]

Thanks for the welcome and words of encourgement.

You are quoting the prices of the 533Mhz version which Acube have discontinued, it is not available anymore from them and we cannot get hold of it. Acube have told us that they will not make any more 533Mhz versions and cannot sell any.

They now sell the 667Mhz version (which is the version we sell) for £440 - (465 EUR+ VAT) - we sell the exactly the same 667Mhz version for £439.99 - our pricing is entirely consistent with them.

We do not inflate any prices. We sell at the manufacturer's RRP.

[Harrison]

I'm sure you don't inflate prices. I have myself ordered many times from your site and have been very happy with the prices I've paid.

The problem with any hardware like the SAM is that due to a small market the manufacturing costs will always be high. It is sad but for us to enjoy the Amiga hobby we all love we have to pay over the odds to get the hardware we want.

[Buleste]

At first glance if you look at what was ACube's lowest price and then compair it to the AmigaKit price it does look a big difference. However when you look more closely and realise that the boards are different and that ACube has the price for the lowest 667MHZ SAM at 489 Euros and then add VAT it works out that AmigaKit may even be selling at a lower price than the manufacturer (£461.00 from ACube at todays exchange rate).

The good news is that the SAM will also run several versions of Linux and also AROS so at least thanks to the Linux support it will be slightly more than a toy.

@AmigaKit.com

Will you be doing a complete version of the SAM? i.e with tower case and drives etc.

[Harrison]

I would also be interested in knowing that. A full system would be of interest to many people I'm sure, and there are some great mini-itx cases available.

Also when will the SAM actually be available to buy with OS4.1 from amigakit.com? Is the October date shown on the site quite accurate? or might that change? I can post a news item on classicamiga when it does become available.

[amigakit.com]

SAM is available now to buy with 4.1 here:

http://amigakit.leamancomputing.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=839
http://amigakit.leamancomputing.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=840

We will be offering complete systems next month as well.

[TiredOfLife]

A1200 Motherboard New £78.77
Mediator TX £190.14
Ethernet Card x2 £20
Spider II USB Card £50.68
Mobilty Radeon 9200 £35.62
SoundBlaster 4.1 Digital £38.79
FastATA MK-III £72.08
PPC 240mhz 256meg Ebay £400?

Total £886.08.

These prices are taken from Amiga shops.
I'm sure people can find some of these bits and pieces cheaper but this gives a rough guide.
I've chosen the Mediator solution because I thought it delivered the closet specs to the Sam but of course there are other setups that could achieve something similar.

The PPC is the big stumbling block as they can't be bought new, so we are at the mercy of auctions on Ebay.
It's also slower than the Sam and the max memory is half that of the Sam as well.
I chosen £400 as the standard amount bearing in mind recent auctions although this is not an exact science when choosing a price for auctioned items.
I also chose to add the FastATA because SAM has SATA.
Without looking into it, I'm confident that SATA would be faster than the FastATA.

Currently the above system is only capable of OS4, although this may change.
Sam will use the newer OS4.1.
The above system would also take more effort to set up, and need a fairly large tower to house it.
Cooling and perhaps noise would be a consideration.
Sam is passively cooled.

So £440 for a Sam starts to look a lot better.

[Buleste]

A1200 Motherboard New £78.77
Mediator TX £190.14
Ethernet Card x2 £20
Spider II USB Card £50.68
Mobilty Radeon 9200 £35.62
SoundBlaster 4.1 Digital £38.79
FastATA MK-III £72.08
PPC 240mhz 256meg Ebay £400?

Total £886.08.

These prices are taken from Amiga shops.
I'm sure people can find some of these bits and pieces cheaper but this gives a rough guide.
I've chosen the Mediator solution because I thought it delivered the closet specs to the Sam but of course there are other setups that could achieve something similar.

The PPC is the big stumbling block as they can't be bought new, so we are at the mercy of auctions on Ebay.
It's also slower than the Sam and the max memory is half that of the Sam as well.
I chosen £400 as the standard amount bearing in mind recent auctions although this is not an exact science when choosing a price for auctioned items.
I also chose to add the FastATA because SAM has SATA.
Without looking into it, I'm confident that SATA would be faster than the FastATA.

Currently the above system is only capable of OS4, although this may change.
Sam will use the newer OS4.1.
The above system would also take more effort to set up, and need a fairly large tower to house it.
Cooling and perhaps noise would be a consideration.
Sam is passively cooled.

So £440 for a Sam starts to look a lot better.

You don't need the soundblaster card as OS4 connot use them. What would be the point of an ethernet card when you've already got USB and would just need a Wi-Fi dongle? You've forgotten to add the cost of OS4.1 into your £440 taking it to £540. Also what is so great about 4.1 over 4.0? Especially when neither has any apps that aren't already available for classic Amigas. It's little more than a very expensive door stop for people with more money than sense. If you want to see a folly then go to a stately garden it's much cheaper. Sorry but i can't get excited about this at all as everything about it is over expensive (not Amigakits fault) and out of date with little functionality. You can't even use the thing to play games which at least you can on a 1200. This stinks of white elephant sh1t. The Natami will at least be able to run Amiga software.

[Harrison]

It is the lack of real software for OS4 that has put me off even considering a PPC based platform to run the OS. There is the argument that you can also run versions of Linux on PPC hardware, but I could just as easily be running Linux on a PC, and I could build a reasonable spec one for under £200.

I think that while OS4 is a commecially licensed OS for a very rare CPU it is never going to gain any interest outside of the existing Amiga userbase, and therefore it will never see much commercial or open source software developed and released for it. The reason Linux can compete against Windows and is so popular is because it is open source, and this invites the development world to experiment and share, building a robust and stable OS for business use.

The only ways forward for OS4 in my view is, as I've said many times before, to port OS4 to Intel compatible processors. Everyone who has been using PCs for more than a couple of years will all have at least one spare working PC knocking around. Being about to buy AmigaOS4 and install it on there would entice a lot more people than buying into a completely new PPC based hardware based with hardly any software or support. And while it probably wouldn't ever be possible to make OS4 competely open source due to licensing, what is the license holder of the AmigaOS really making profit wise from the license at the moment? I bet it isn't much, if anything at all. Is it worthwhile still trying to milk the remaining small fragments of such an old OS license until it is killed off because of it?

[TiredOfLife]

I didn't forget about the cost of the OS, I deliberately didn't include it as the cost would be the same for both machines if available.

Besides which, I was costing hardware, nothing else.

Sound cards do work in OS4, I know because I use one.

The exitement surrounding the new hardware is because there is a chance for more Amiga enthusiasts to start developing software for OS4.1.

It's not about OS4.1 being better than OS4 to a large degree, it's about the fact that more people can get access to OS4xxx.

Ethernet ports are preferred to USB by many people.

There are apps available for OS4xxx that are not available to OS3xxx.
In some case it's because classic machines are lacking that bit of extra grunt needed.
A1, UA1 and Sam have that bit more, not massive difference to someone with a PPC or CPPC but just enough to make the difference.

As for games, well I'm not sure how good the various emulators are but will investigate.
Games that usr rtg and AHI generally run under OS4 anyway.

As for the Natami, well it's a nice idea but a bit too late I feel.
If it runs all or most old games, then it could be a good replacement for ageing boards but I'm not convinced there will be much software development.
I could be wrong of course, but I can't see yet another split developing.

Already have AOS3xxx, AOS4xxx, Morphos and AROS but again I could be wrong.
It's possible with new hardware that programers could be attracted from other groups particulary AOS3 as there would be common ground.
Although the AOS4 might also attract AOS3 developers who have previously been unable to get hardware.

Natami is not available yet and costs could make the project prohibitve.

[TiredOfLife]

A review of OS4.1 plus a small interview with one of the programmers.

http://arstechnica.com/articles/culture/amigaos41-ars.ars

[Harrison]

Thanks for the link mate. Interesting reading.

I still would really like to be able to run OS4, just to know I've used it and run it as an OS myself.

[TiredOfLife]

Well it might be more reasonable in price in the not too distant future.

Some people to seem to think it will be released for the Efika, which can be bought for a very low price.

Others seem to think the price of the Sam will drop as the newer model the EP will be cheaper to manuafacture.

Plus you might get a bargain if somebody decides to sell their old Sam to upgrade to the newer.

[Harrison]

That is a good point. Further development on a motherboard will normally always reduce manufacturing costs, especially as they work out ways to integrate functionality into less chips on the board. Lets hope this happens.

[Stephen Coates]

I have used OS4 briefly and liked it. Not used OS 4.1, but since it is avaliable for the A1 I might be able to next month at Lincolnshire Amiga Group if rockape brings his A1 as I think he ordered a copy of OS4.1.

It is good to know that we are finally getting some new hardware, and I would say that compared to an A1, £400 is probably a good price.

I would think an Efika would make a very good system for AmigaOS. Didn't someone say somewhere that the developers have managed to get OS4 to run on quite a few systems (i.e. not just the Mac Mini)?

[TiredOfLife]

Spoke to Rockape yesterday, he has definitely ordered 4.1.

Rumours of Sam being produced by Ikir for 330 euros.
Don't know how true that is.
Will do some further digging.