Strange behaviour during PC repair

[Harrison]

A client asked if I could look at his home PC which I've done work on in the past, including upgrading the drives, replacing ram and reinstalling XP.

He said the system had just suddenly shut down whilst he was using it, and when restarted it only stayed running for another 10 minutes before it then shut down and wouldn't start up again.

I plugged it in and it powered up to the desktop without a problem so I thought it might have just been one of those odd things that sometimes happens. But I then noticed the back of the case was getting very hot so opened it up to discover the graphics card fan wasn't spinning due to dust build up.

I cleaned the dust from the case and graphics card fan and the fan then started spinning again but was definitely on its last legs due to that horrible squeaking noise you get as they are failing.

Then the system shut down as he described and wouldn't power up again. I unplugged the system and had a good look inside, but everything seems to be plugged in firmly. I connected the power again and without pressing the soft power button on the front of the case the cpu and graphics card fans started spinning which is a bit odd. And the cases front power led was flickering instead of being constant.

I ended up trying a different graphics card but that wouldn't power on anything. I did get the system to sort of power up once with the keyboard num lock light coming on but nothing else, and the monitor didn't get a signal.

So now I'm thinking the PSU is faulty along with the graphics card. What do you all think?

[Harrison]

Forgot to add something else.

I thought I would fully disassemble and rebuild this PC so I know everything is connected and correctly installed before I do go and get another PSU. So I thought I would remount the CPU as the heatsink and fan were quite clogged up with dust. So I unclipped the heatink and tried to take it off but it came out with the CPU firmly stuck to the base of the heatsink.

On looking at it closely it actually looks like the original installer has stuck the CPU using some sort of glue. :o Not sure how I'm going to get this off the heatsink! It is a P4 though so does have the big metal heatspreader on the CPU. Would have been worse had it been the older AMDs that didn't have a heatspreader fitted.

So now I have to find a way to get the CPU off the heatsink. Ideas?

I am going to try some 100% alcohol to see if I can dissolve the stuff holding it on. If not I will have to try and pry it off somehow. :unsure:

[Teho]

Think you can cut through the glue using one of those knives with long thin razor-sharp blades (don't know what they're called exactly, kinda like those Stanley-knives but much longer blade)? That'd still leave residual glue on the CPU though, but it'd be easier to get off with the heatsink gone.

This definitely sounds like a toasted PSU to me, but there's always the chance that it's the motherboard itself that's acting up.

[LowercaseE]

Could you maybe try something like "Goo Gone" to get rid of the glue?

[J T]

Possibly a little heat (like a hairdryer or something) while trying to prise it off. May or may not help, depends on the type of glue they have used.

[Submeg]

Hmm, but the glue would have been heated up and cooled down numerous times, so it would require a lot of heat to melt that hard glue. Wouldnt that damage the components? It sounds like you'll have to dissolve it....my best choice would be hydrochloric acid. That dissolves everything! :thumbs:

[Harrison]

Yeah, including the CPU I would think!

When I did a search lots of other people have had similar CPU stuck on Heatsink problems and some did mention Goo Gone. I've not heard of it and wonder if it is for sale in the UK. :unsure:

[Demon Cleaner]

Here (http://www.magicamerican.com/products_gg.shtml) are some Goo Gone products, I just looked what it was on the net, as I myself haven't heard of it either. Seems like another Cilit Bang (or what's that called?).

[cicobuff]

How old is the PC? Would it be worth re-evaluation rather than troubleshooting? Or even time saved on trying to sort it out?

I mean if you are unsure that it is definitely the PSU....it could be a voltage issue with the mobo...the heatsink stuck to the CPU issue on top, how much time do you want to spend investigating? Time is your monetary loss as well as a pc repairer dont forget....

Depending on the clients computing needs, it may work out more cost effective with less labour intensive repairs to actually get another motherboard (with onboard graphics unless he is a gamer), CPU and PSU if diagnosis is proving troublesome, providing the exisiting RAM is compatible and hard disk, drives etc are ok.

[Submeg]

Goo Gone is the sibling of De-Solve It. That stuff dissolves everything! I use it on my cd cases to get all the stickers off of them

[Demon Cleaner]

I use it on my cd cases to get all the stickers off of themThat's so annoying when the put their stickers just in front of the case, makes me mad every time. Have to get such a product. Is De-Solve It something british?

[Harrison]

I've not heard of that either. Maybe it's an Australian only product? :unsure:

[Harrison]

I got the CPU off of the heatsink. The hair dryer worked a treat. I just blasted the edges of the CPU where it met the heatsink for a few minutes, turning it to heat each side, and it eventually just fell off. Was surprised to find it was just thermal grease holding it on, but as its been like that since new it was quite solid and whoever built it used way too much thermal grease between the two. It was caked in it!

That's all cleaned up now and ready to be reinstalled onto the motherboard.


How old is the PC? Would it be worth re-evaluation rather than troubleshooting? Or even time saved on trying to sort it out?

I mean if you are unsure that it is definitely the PSU....it could be a voltage issue with the mobo...the heatsink stuck to the CPU issue on top, how much time do you want to spend investigating? Time is your monetary loss as well as a pc repairer dont forget....

Depending on the clients computing needs, it may work out more cost effective with less labour intensive repairs to actually get another motherboard (with onboard graphics unless he is a gamer), CPU and PSU if diagnosis is proving troublesome, providing the exisiting RAM is compatible and hard disk, drives etc are ok.

It's a home computer used by a family with 3 children. They all use it for work, homework, internet, a bit of gaming etc...

It's not that new but it is fast enough for their needs. The spec is a 2.6GHz Pentium 4 with 768MB ram. (I upgraded it for them last year by adding a DVD-RW and an extra 512MB ram).

I know that the HD is ok, and the ram would be compatible with a similar spec system, so something newer such as the cheaper AMD64's still available.

My plan is to do the following.

Buy a new PSU and connect it up and test. If the system fires up and runs fine for a day then everything is good to go.

But if that doesn't work then I cam be quite sure the motherboard is the problem, and I have a couple of options I can give the owners to choose between.

I could source a new motherboard for them, outlining the problems this may still cause as I don't know for certain, although I'm pretty sure, the ram and CPU are both ok.

Or I could ditch the existing motherboard and CPU and install them a new motherboard and CPU into the existing case, using the existing ram, graphics and TV cards, optical drives etc...

As for cost, I'm not doing this for free so that's not a problem.

[Submeg]

I dunno I assume you can get it elsewhere...strange.

Here is what it looks like

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v617/Submeg/RIMG0080.jpg

Hopefully it makes it easier for you

[J T]

Hmm, but the glue would have been heated up and cooled down numerous times, so it would require a lot of heat to melt that hard glue.

You know, I was just about to go 'oh yeah, oops, durrr, silly me'

and then I read:


I got the CPU off of the heatsink. The hair dryer worked a treat. I just blasted the edges of the CPU where it met the heatsink for a few minutes, turning it to heat each side, and it eventually just fell off. Was surprised to find it was just thermal grease holding it on, but as its been like that since new it was quite solid and whoever built it used way too much thermal grease between the two. It was caked in it!

Yay!

I rule! :ridingbanana:

I actually read about using a hairdryer on another forum, but this time it was to get badges off cars without leaving too much residue or pulling off paint, and also to soften the sealant that binds the clear plastic outer lens of headlights to the actual body of the headlamp unit, so it can be disassembled.

[Harrison]

I also read on other forums about people using or suggesting to use a hairdryer. And it worked easily too. The heatsink got really hot, which just goes to show how good they are at conducting heat quickly. I think had it been more than just thermal grease I would have needed to try something more, so lucky it was just that.

I've now got that system fully working again and the owner collected the PC today. It turned out to be the PSU that was faulty. I think it developed a bad ground because it was pulsing power to the system even when in soft-off mode as it was still feeding power and making the CPU fan spin and the front power led flicker, even when the system was off. I stuck a new PSU in the system and it works perfectly again. :)

[Submeg]

I actually read about using a hairdryer on another forum, but this time it was to get badges off cars without leaving too much residue or pulling off paint, and also to soften the sealant that binds the clear plastic outer lens of headlights to the actual body of the headlamp unit, so it can be disassembled.

And why would you need to know how to get badges off of cars? :eyebrow:

Oh yea, btw De-Solve-It is by Orange power. It works a treat, always gets all the rubbish off of my cd cases, and it takes about 10 secs to work

[J T]

And why would you need to know how to get badges off of cars? :eyebrow:

Oh yea, btw De-Solve-It is by Orange power. It works a treat, always gets all the rubbish off of my cd cases, and it takes about 10 secs to work

I've seen that De-solve it stuff in mail order catalogues and on shopping channels.

As for the car badges, it was on a kind of enthusiast site. A lot of people take off the factory fitted badges to move them or put different ones on, or to get rid of them altogether.

[Harrison]

Common practice by people who cannot afford the real deal. Buy a cheaper model of the same car, debadge it and customise it to look like the expensive performance model. Without the actual performance of course.

[AlexJ]

Common practice by people who cannot afford the real deal. Buy a cheaper model of the same car, debadge it and customise it to look like the expensive performance model. Without the actual performance of course.

Lots of manufactures will do it for you when you buy the car. I read somewhere that in the UK a large proportion of BMW 316's and the other lower performance 3-series tick the Delete Badge option to make it look like they got something better than they have while in Germany a high proportion of M3 buyers opt for the delete option to make their cars seem more subtle.

[Harrison]

Whereas in the UK people are sticking M3 badges on their 316's! :lol:

[J T]

Yep, both of the above posts are very true.

Probably not something I'd do personally, but many do.

(It was on a Ford owner's club forum by the way)

Speaking of M3 badges - the other day I saw a fairly old 3 series with black plastic (not body coloured) bumpers and M3 badges! Who that joker was trying to kid I don't know.

[Harrison]

Well, what do you expect living around London. ;)

[Submeg]

Here is a post for them: :busted: