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Ghost
14th July 2008, 22:05
I am going to hate myself for doing this as much as I hate Bethesda's Fallout 3 but I would be low if I did not do this.

I am not going to say "Enjoy this."

http://e3.g4tv.com/e32008/videos/26926/E3_08_FallOut_3_Gameplay_Demo.html

In case it doesn't run

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CCzCON9DsSU


http://www.gametrailers.com/player/36202.html

In case it doesn't run

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xW0cN137yAc

THIS IS NOT FALLOUT!

Demon Cleaner
14th July 2008, 23:20
That is indeed very weird :o And you're right, it's definitely not enjoyable. What the...

Harrison
14th July 2008, 23:38
I agree that this is not the Fallout of old. In fact I would say these two trailers do not show anything I was expecting. Instead it is showing what looks more like a straight FPS with a big arsenal of OTT weapons and a load of enemies to shoot. Basically like the majority of existing FPS games released in the last few years.

I like FPS games and if I were viewing this as a new game in that genre then it looks quite good and something I would be looking forward to. However as the next game in the Fallout series I was expecting something more like a Post Apocalyptic version of Oblivion. Something with much more than just shooting enemies. These trailers show none of this. Just blood shed, and none of it looks in the style of the Post Apocalyptic 50's, which is odd in itself.

The trailers do mention being able to hack into computers, and collecting food and other style to survive. However the videos make it feel more like HL2 then the RPG style FPS I was expecting.

I hope these trailers are not really depicting the final game, but are just showing some of the fighting to wet the appetite of the short attention spanned youth of today.

Puni/Void
15th July 2008, 08:51
Hi Ghost and Harrison,

I'm very sad because of Fallout 3 and what Bethesda has done to it.

Like you said, Ghost, this is not Fallout. :(

I'm going to write more later today, as I gotta go now.

Ghost
15th July 2008, 11:41
One more for the road

http://e3.g4tv.com/e32008/videos/26939/Hands_On_Fallout_3.html

There is some new stuff in this but you will have to tolerate Todd's yabbering.

Harrison
15th July 2008, 12:32
Why do all male Americans in the last few years have such annoying whining girls voices?

Ghost
15th July 2008, 12:52
Ah yes Todd's voice right?

I can't help it but I really hate that voice.

Puni/Void
15th July 2008, 16:06
Ok, I'm back now. :)

Here's my impressions concerning Fallout 3:

In the extended gameplay footage, Fallout 3 is portrayed as a first person shooter. There's almost no discussion about the RPG elements at all. This is probably due to Fallout 3 not being an RPG.

In the same video, the audience goes bananas when heads are being blown to pieces or when body parts are flying through the air. Throughout the video, most of what we see is related to shooting at robots or raiders. There are no dialogues, no interacting with NPC's, no feeling of adventure. It seems like the most important thing in Fallout 3 is shooting.

The main character is nearly immune to bullets, but that could of course be a cheat they used or something.

Don't get me started on the "Fatman".

Also, shooting people with teddy bears that makes the targets limbs fall off? It could be that this was because of the bloody mess trait/perk, which was so highly praised by Mr. Howard. It seems like this trait/perk is one of the main ingredients in the game. :(

I could write a whole lot more about this, but I stop by saying that this is not Fallout. This is not an RPG. This is a post-apocalyptic first person shooter with hints of RPG elements.

I'm more looking forward to play with Fan-made Fallout when it finally gets released. ;)

Harrison
15th July 2008, 16:12
I'm just hoping that they have only been showing the shooting elements of the game in these videos. I have seen screenshots of the player in conversations with NPCs and interacting with things, so I am still hopeful. The fact it was meant to be based on the Oblivion engine should have given us similar scope that that game's universe.

Sadly this is what happens when you give the development of a game to an American with a voice clearly showing his balls have yet to drop!

Teho
15th July 2008, 16:42
I'm just hoping that they have only been showing the shooting elements of the game in these videos.

I think so too. They're mostly showing action footage now because that is the easiest way to get the average guy excited about something. They're not catering to the fans with these the same way the original teaser did, as after all the diehard Fallout fans will in all likelyhood be just a small minority of the people getting this. They keep repeating that they're staying true to the original Fallout concept, so I'm waiting till the game is actually out before I pass any judgement on it.

After all, most of the Oblivion trailers were action-focused as well. Besides, allthough I agree that fighting isn't what defined the original Fallout games you did spend a lot of your time fighting in them. Giving you a feel for the atmosphere in it isn't easily done in a few seconds, so I can understand that they focus on the action in the trailers.

I tell you now that I will wait and see but really, I'm probably getting it just because it's Fallout. I mean, I bought Brotherhood of Steel knowing that it was supposed to suck (and it did). ;)

Harrison
15th July 2008, 16:54
I actually quite enjoyed Brotherhood of Steel. It wasn't great that is true, but it was an OK action adventure game.

One thing they haven't shown anything of in the demo videos is your sidekick dog, other than at the very end of the video sequences.

Teho
15th July 2008, 17:46
I should've clarified; Brotherhood sucked as a Fallout game. It was exactly what people are fearing Fallout 3 will be, a totally action orientated game where the adventure element was only there to act as an excuse to send you rampaging through it's levels. And no advanced, branching conversations either. You had several reply options in the conversations but they were still completely linear.

If you disregard its Fallout roots it was an ok dungeon crawler in itself. I've spoken warmly before of the engine it was built on, which was first used on Baldur's Gate: Dark Alliance, and then later its sequel, the two Everquest titles Champions of Norrath and Champions: Return to Arms, and finally The Bard's Tale remake. I can recommend all of these titles if you like this sort of games, but they are all fairly linear hack'em-ups with little in common with the main game series they were based on. And if I were to rate these games in any order I'd say Brotherhood was the worst of them. But it was still good enough that I played it through to the end, which counts for something. I rarely finish games that aren't above average anymore. Mainly because there's just too many games and not enough free time. ;)

Ghost
15th July 2008, 23:21
Hello all,

Well Harrison, I do not share your optimism, because one way or another, this is not Fallout.
Fallout was never like Oblivion and it should not become like it either, Bethesda should have made its own PA license.


I'm probably getting it just because it's Fallout. I mean, I bought Brotherhood of Steel knowing that it was supposed to suck (and it did).

Teho, have you considered waiting until its in the bargain bins or sold second hand?
Just because it has the name of a brand on it it doesn't mean you have to get it immediately.

Harrison
15th July 2008, 23:52
@Teho

Yep I've played all of those games you mentioned. And yes, it was quite a good game engine. I've always quite liked the dungeon crawler style games. However none can beat Dungeon Siege. I still love that game. Many slated it but I really enjoyed it. Sometimes you don't want to have to solve puzzles, navigate long branching conversations and other aspects of a full RPG, but instead want a more dumbed down Acton RPG where you can just hack and slash your way though masses of enemies, collecting the loot and have fun.

@Ghost

Times move on. If they had keep Fallout 3 in the same style as the previous two games then no one would have bought it other than the existing fans of the series. Games publishers are in the business to make money, not just to panda to the whims of a small group (compared to the whole gaming community) of die hard fans. Therefore they had to bring the franchise up to date and attach it to a game style that sells, and sadly at the moment that is FPS style games.

Ghost
16th July 2008, 08:25
Times move on. If they had keep Fallout 3 in the same style as the previous two games then no one would have bought it other than the existing fans of the series. Games publishers are in the business to make money, not just to panda to the whims of a small group (compared to the whole gaming community) of die hard fans. Therefore they had to bring the franchise up to date and attach it to a game style that sells, and sadly at the moment that is FPS style games.

Don't give me ammo man, don't give me ammo!

As for the masses, **** em!

Teho
16th July 2008, 10:59
Just because it has the name of a brand on it it doesn't mean you have to get it immediately.

Yes it does. :p

No seriously, I bought Brotherhood of Steel but it definitely wasn't full price. I don't remember exactly where I got it and for how much anymore (probably amazon.co.uk, in which case it was at least less than 18 before VAT as that's what it needs to be under for me to import it duty-free here), but I won't be jumping on Fallout 3 either if its given poor reviews, don't worry. But I will get it if it's only a poor Fallout game but a decent game on its own. I'm not as hung up on that as certain other people here. :p


Yep I've played all of those games you mentioned. And yes, it was quite a good game engine. I've always quite liked the dungeon crawler style games. However none can beat Dungeon Siege. I still love that game. Many slated it but I really enjoyed it. Sometimes you don't want to have to solve puzzles, navigate long branching conversations and other aspects of a full RPG, but instead want a more dumbed down Acton RPG where you can just hack and slash your way though masses of enemies, collecting the loot and have fun.

Exactly. I usually like these kind of games as well. I didn't really get into the first Dungeon Siege, but played the second one and its expansion. They're very good games, no doubt about that. After the news about Diablo 3 broke I decided to give Diablo 2 a playthrough again as well. Last time I did that I didn't have the expansion for it, so finally decided it was time give that one a go again. I don't think I'll try going on battle.net again though. In my opinion that's where the fun stops. If you don't care about owning this months item or using this months character build and just about playing your own game and having fun then you're immediately declared idiot and noob. So I'll just avoid that I think.

Ghost
16th July 2008, 13:35
Hi Harrison,

I spoke with my friend Sander, one of the moderators about this, this is what he responded.


The big fallacy here is that you're assuming that it's *only*FPS games that are selling well, even though the response to Diablo 3's isometric perspective is overwhelming, and the Civilization (isometric, turn-based) games are amongst the best-selling games.
Moreover, it makes no sense to release a game with a brand that has special meaning to a certain niche, and then make the game not for that niche but for the mainstream market that everyone is already marketing their games to.

Harrison
16th July 2008, 15:54
He's right. It doesn't make any sense to keep turning out games based on the same styles and same genres. However all of the big publishers have now done that for a very long time. Just look at The Sims and the FIFA releases!

And at the moment the next big thing is MMOs. But with a further plan in mind. To remove the need for media to deliver games (CDs, DVDs, BR, Carts etc) and instead have the whole lot as online delivered content. That in my view won't work because so many people do not have a fast enough or reliable broadband connection to make it effectively work. But that is M$'s big plan for the next Xbox!

Ghost
18th July 2008, 13:23
Another interview

http://www.gamevideos.com/video/id/20175

Ghost
14th October 2008, 18:01
Well here is another load of movies for you all, if this doesn't convince you Fallout 3 is a half assed shooter.

http://www.gametrailers.com/player/41333.html
http://www.gametrailers.com/player/41331.html
http://www.gametrailers.com/player/41329.html
http://www.gametrailers.com/player/41324.html

BTW, you all do know that the XBox version has been leaked onto the Internet right?
I even know the plot of Fallout 3 by now and boy, its poor.

Puni/Void
15th October 2008, 20:16
Ghost wrote:


BTW, you all do know that the XBox version has been leaked onto the Internet right? I even know the plot of Fallout 3 by now and boy, its poor.

I'm not surprised about the poor quality of the plot. I've mostly given up on Fallout 3 myself due to what it has become. :(

Ghost
16th October 2008, 11:45
I'm not surprised about the poor quality of the plot. I've mostly given up on Fallout 3 myself due to what it has become. :(

I do not mean it stupid but after reading this plot and its 'twists' I mourn even more for the cancellation of Van Buren, the true Fallout 3.

Yes, it may have had some rough edges but it felt genuine Fallout to me, wonderful new factions, a continuation of lore with plenty of new addition, exciting new gameplay concepts like freeing slaves and asking them to help build a better town.
Ending a war between the NCR and the Brotherhood of Steel, stop a Ghoul maniac from bombing cities with dirty bombs and using humans in insidious Ghoul reproduction experiments, and going into space!

Why ... why?

Harrison
16th October 2008, 13:54
Why? Simple! Profit!

The original Fallout 3 would have been great for the series as it would definitely have kept the game world and history intact. However such an RPG style game just doesn't make the same kind of money for the developers and publishers these days compared to the more brainless out and out killing and mass explosion style games.

Very sad, but very true. The publishers are no longer working with small developers who have free reign to create and develop ideas freely. Now concepts and development has to fit into marketing strategies and proven sales statistics.

Ghost
17th October 2008, 15:38
I see you have also learned more about the 'new and improved Fallout' Harrison.

Harrison
17th October 2008, 16:41
I can guarantee I will still enjoy Fallout 3 though. I always take each new game released as a separate entity, even if it is the next in a series of games. If it does end up following on nicely then that is a bonus, but if a game is good in its own right then that is just as good. And being a fan of FPS games I'm sure I will love it.

However I do get why fans of only RPGs or dedicated fans of the original Fallout games are upset as this isn't a continuation of the series they came to love.

Ghost
18th October 2008, 12:33
Ignorance must be bliss, prepare to have it taken away from you.