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Buleste
4th April 2008, 11:28
I'm curious. Does anyone use any emulators on their Amiga. I use ZXAM occaisionally but have never been able to get a good C64 emulator running at a good speed. And then i just had a qick look at amidog's (http://www.amidog.com/) site and was wondering if anyone has tried to get FPSE running and if so what sort of speed are you getting?

Stephen Coates
4th April 2008, 12:17
Not really had much experience with emulators on the Amiga. I tried running PC-Task in WinUAE and didn't really do much with it. I also set up ShapeShifter on my A1200 but never installed the MacOS as I didn't have it on DD disks.

Not tried anything else though.

Buleste
4th April 2008, 12:41
I did get Shapeshifter to work and had MACOS7 running as the hdf was on one of the last Amiga Format CD's and PCTask also worked but it has to be said i would have liked to get WIN95 or 98 to run. That was when i had a 1260.

Graham Humphrey
4th April 2008, 15:53
The only ones I ever use (and not very often) are the excellent Speccy emulator ASp, and the Master System/Game Gear emulator AmiMasterGear which is also pretty good.

Harrison
4th April 2008, 16:18
I don't any longer, but when I used to use the Amiga as my main platform I used to explore and use any and every emulator I could find. I would often buy the latest emulator disk releases from PD libraries.

The first ones I tried were ZX mainly Spectrum and C64 emulators. Both worked up to a point, but the Speccy emulators were always the fastest ones and would often run games at full speed. I forget the name of the actual emulators now, but they are still installed on both my A1200 and A4000 HDs so will see later. I also tried some Amstrad CPC, 8-bit Atari, Acorn BBC, Nintendo Gameboy (B/W) and a few others.

I also played around with Shapeshifter. One of the magazines gave away Shapeshifter with the full install of OS7 (because Apple had released it into the PD) and I setup a fully functioning emulated OS7 Mac using that which was very useful in the mid 90's as we had to use Macs at University so I needed to access the files from home.

I also used PC-Task. The PD disks I got with it contained quite a lot of DOS software including things like Lotus123 and Word Perfect which again was useful because I needed to access these file types from home on the Amiga.

There was also an Atari ST emulator but I could never get that to work. I think it was called Gemulator. It would boot into the GEM desktop and I could navigate around it, but I couldn't get any software to run. Good job the PC emulators Winston and Steem came along as they work nicely.

Graham Humphrey
4th April 2008, 16:25
I think on the ST emulators on the Amiga, you couldn't run programs that hit the hardware directly for some reason, so I guess that rules out pretty much any game (not that there are many ST games worth emulating) ;)

Harrison
4th April 2008, 17:11
:lol: Classic statement there from a devoted Amiga user. ;)

I actually was quite fond of the ST in the late 80's as I owned one from 1987, but as soon as I purchased my first Amiga in 1991 I instantly was converted and could see just how inferior they were. But they did still have quite a lot of good software and games. Just that most were also available on the Amiga and were better.

Buleste
5th April 2008, 18:28
Just downloaded VICE for OS4 and it runs pretty fast. Had a quick go at Uridium and about to try Project Stealth Fighter and Elite128which will be a good judge of the speed as the C64 and C128 were never all that fast with vector graphics. I'm even going to DL Hatari an ST emulator to see what Gem was like.

Puni/Void
6th April 2008, 08:34
I also used to run emulators on the Amiga. Like others here, I can't remember the names of the different tools I used.

Had a very good ZX Spectrum emulator for running both new and old ZX demo scene releases. Many quality productions was (and still is!) released for this platform. The demos ran as intended through emulation on the Amiga.

Did also use emulators for NES, SMS, and Sega Gamegear. The ones for Sega worked ok, but I seem to recall many problems with the one for NES. Not absolutely sure though, as this was a long time ago.

Graham Humphrey
6th April 2008, 10:24
I've used a NES emulator too - A/NES, there was a new version of that released a few months ago. There are loads of graphical glitches though and some games don't work at all...

Buleste
6th April 2008, 11:17
I tried waprNES but couldn't get anything to work. I'll give OS4 versions a try as WarpOS is tempremental. Managed to get hatari working and tried some of the earlier TOS/GEM images and i have to say Workbench1.3 in blue, GEM in green, no wonder most people who used to use computers in the 80's and early 90's wear glasses and it's not because we're all w*nkers.

Puni/Void
6th April 2008, 12:03
I've used a NES emulator too - A/NES, there was a new version of that released a few months ago. There are loads of graphical glitches though and some games don't work at all...

I read the review in the latest Amiga Future concerning that emulator. If I remember correctly, they wrote that the speed had improved, but that the graphical glitches, like you said, was a problem. I think it also stood that the author had decided to abandon the project. :(

Did also read your game reviews by the way. Well done! :thumbs:

Graham Humphrey
6th April 2008, 13:11
In fact it was me who wrote the A/NES review too :lol:

It was a shame, it could be a really good emulator with some work as the basics are there. A pity the author has stopped work on it.

Thanks for your comments on my reviews too, much appreciated :)

Puni/Void
6th April 2008, 15:05
In fact it was me who wrote the A/NES review too

It was a shame, it could be a really good emulator with some work as the basics are there. A pity the author has stopped work on it.

Thanks for your comments on my reviews too, much appreciated

You're welcome mate. :)

Hehe.. didn't notice that you wrote the A/NES review as well. :lol:

TiredOfLife
7th April 2008, 16:24
I used to use Magic64 and Frodo, both a bit on the slow side.
Tried Vice for OS3xx, even slower.
Keep meaning to try Vice under OS4.

Buleste
7th April 2008, 16:33
VICE runs at around 80-105% speed on my system. I'd forgotten the old start up music to C64 Elite. Boy did that give me a flashback. The C128 emulator is somewhat buggy and needs a AmigaOne to run as far as i can tell.

TiredOfLife
7th April 2008, 16:35
I want to play Wizball at a descent speed.
I know there was an Amiga version but I prefer the C64 version.
I think we actually discussed that before, possibly on the old site.

Buleste
7th April 2008, 16:39
I know what you mean i have Wizball for the Ami but it was far better on C64. Thanks for reminding me I'll have to D/L that and check it out.

Harrison
7th April 2008, 16:50
What made it better on the C64 version? I have to admit to actually owning and completing it on the Atari ST and really enjoyed the game.

Buleste
7th April 2008, 16:57
Possibly nostalgia and rose tinted glasses or just sometimes simple is better. It's one of those things that is hard to quantify. Tell you what i'll try both and see which i prefer.

Buleste
7th April 2008, 20:32
Unfortunatly the C64 version would only run at 50-60% so i couldn't truly compare the two but i think the controls on the Amiga version are more sluggish and less delicate than what i remember of the C64 version. Next time an AmigaOne comes up on ebay Harrison you can but it for me so i can study this extensivley. Hint. Hint.:sly:

TiredOfLife
7th April 2008, 22:57
Your doing better than me, although still not good enough.
Could have sworn I was better off with just the 060 using software other than Vice.
Will look into this.

Buleste
8th April 2008, 10:50
Thanks for letting me know. I now know that my CV64/3D is not hindering me too much then.

TiredOfLife
8th April 2008, 12:14
The latest version of Magic64 seems to operating at around 350% speed when just at the basic start screen.
In comparison VICE under OS4 ranges between 95 and 105%.
This drops to around 35% when Wizball is loaded.

Magic64 is running of my 060 whereas VICE is running off the PPC.

Ran Magic64 under OS4 and therefore it was emulated at 020 speeds.
Operated at 150% at basic start screen

I didn't get to test games properly last night using Magic64 due to one or two minor issues and lack of time, but will do so tonight.

Harrison
8th April 2008, 13:52
The C64 version of Wizball must be using some hardware hitting routines to hit the emulation that hard. I will have to load it up in the PC version of Vice to have a play and see why everyone likes it so much.

Buleste
8th April 2008, 14:15
Does Magic64 require a keyfile? and if so does anyone have one? and is 1.81 the last version?

TiredOfLife
8th April 2008, 15:10
No it doesn't.
1.81 sounds about right.
Did you download from Aminet?
That's the one I started testing last night.

Buleste
8th April 2008, 20:21
I've downloaded Magic64 1.81 from aminet and it crashes on 3.9. when i try to use it OS4.0 it works to a degree (I get the loading screen for Wizball then it freezes). However it is also time limited to 10 mins as it's the shareware version.

Harrison
8th April 2008, 21:37
Have you tried the Amiga version of VICE? http://www.viceteam.org/amigaos.html

There are versions available for OS3, OS4, MorphOS, AROS, WarpOS and WarpUp so some you should be able to get some good speed with one of those.

TiredOfLife
8th April 2008, 22:49
@Buleste

Sorry about the key thing.
I think I had an older version at one point that didn't need it.
The newest does.

You need to use the right graphic settings, I had the same problem.

Select voodoo 640x480 8bit and rtg.
You should be laughing.

Buleste
9th April 2008, 09:33
@Harrison
You're not reading the previous posts again are you? :rolleyes:We've done the VICE thing and now we're seeing which is the fastest.:p

@TiredOfLife
Can't even get to any sort of screenmode select on 3.9. Tried Snoopdosing the problem and as soon as it calls for the keyfile it goes tits up. Not so sure as to why the OS4 is crashing though.

Buleste
9th April 2008, 12:16
Just tried VICE on my PC and Wizball is better on the C64. From the fake guitar riff and all the 8 bit sound effects to the graphics and the sensitivity of the joystick. It's just one of those games where improved graphics and sound just didn't improve the game. Still one of Sensible Softwares finest games though.


Also just realised that i've been using an older version of VICE on OS4 so i'll try the latest version and see how that goes.

Harrison
9th April 2008, 15:37
I was actually interested in finding out how well the different Amiga versions of VICE ran. Especially comparing the 68K version against the PPC versions.

Wizball was definitely a great game, although many people didn't seem to "get" it, and I suppose mixing a puzzle game and shoot em' up together isn't instantly logical to some.

Thinking about it, the first version I must have played was on the CPC464 and that was playable. But I remember preferring the Atari ST version over the 8-bit version at the time. Enough so that I completed the game.

I'm now wondering how the ST and Amiga versions of the game compare. I'm going to have to fire up lots of different versions of the game and compare them side by side to get a better perspective.

Buleste
9th April 2008, 15:59
At last i've managed to get MagiC64 up and running under 3.9 (turns out i had to edit the icon so that it was to run in shell rather than workbench). However i can't get wizball to run and also it looks like even if i did it would only be running at around the same speed as VICE under OS4. Elite runs a little faster though.


Looks like TiredOfLife and myself have opened a Wizball of worms as to which is the best version. I can just see Harrison with about 5 emulators up and running trying to see which is the best version.

Harrison
9th April 2008, 16:10
Looks like TiredOfLife and myself have opened a Wizball of worms as to which is the best version. I can just see Harrison with about 5 emulators up and running trying to see which is the best version.

:yesyes::yesyes::yesyes: indeed you have! :yesyes::yesyes::yesyes:

And yes, that is exactly what I will be doing. Will be interesting to see what I discover. I will create a new thread once I do this to discuss the different versions.

Buleste
9th April 2008, 16:19
It'll be more intersting to see how many windows with different emulators running the same game you can get running at the same time without affecting performance.

TiredOfLife
9th April 2008, 16:27
At last i've managed to get MagiC64 up and running under 3.9 (turns out i had to edit the icon so that it was to run in shell rather than workbench). However i can't get wizball to run and also it looks like even if i did it would only be running at around the same speed as VICE under OS4. Elite runs a little faster though.


I have Wizball running quicker using Magic64 and an 060 than Vice and a BPPC166.
Something is not right.
Can't get Vice to run under 3.9 using BPPC, keep getting exception errors.
Will have a look at Frodo tonight.

Buleste
9th April 2008, 16:37
VICE under WarpOS is somewhat experimental and tempremental. Frodo is a no go no matter what you have if you hjave a classic Amiga. It's slow and sluggish.

Looks like we can conclude that VICE under OS4 and a 210Mhz PPC is as fast as MagiC64 under 3.9 with a 25Mhz 040 but as for speed of games it all depends on the age of the game as later games pushed the hardware more and so are slower on emulators.

TiredOfLife
9th April 2008, 16:42
@Buleste

That is a pretty poor state of affairs.
Should be better off using PPC.

Pity the creator of Magic64 never got round to doing a PPC version.

Buleste
9th April 2008, 16:49
It should be better with a PPC but as VICE is a port and most likely a port using AmigaOne hardware it's not surprising. If i was a better programmer i'd have a look at trying to optimise VICE for OS4 classic but i'm not so i can't. It's a simple case of PC itus with all OS4 stuff as they are all being developed on the more powerfull AmigaOne machines they are only being optimised to run at acceptable speeds on low spec AmigaOnes as they were the only computers able to run OS4. Now OS4 classic has come out we may eventually get some software written to run well on low spec machines but i doubt it.

TiredOfLife
9th April 2008, 16:57
We have got two chances at the min.

1) Coders start optimising programs for classic users.
2) Shark makes an appearance at a reasonable price.

:hmmm:

Harrison
9th April 2008, 17:08
It'll be more intersting to see how many windows with different emulators running the same game you can get running at the same time without affecting performance.

Indeed. Will be interesting to see how many I can run simultaneously. ST emulators don't use many resources and WinUAE only uses around 12% CPU when stressed so I might be able to run more. Failing that I will just set the others running on some of the other PCs sitting here under my desk. ;)

Harrison
9th April 2008, 17:13
We have got two chances at the min.

1) Coders start optimising programs for classic users.
2) Shark makes an appearance at a reasonable price.

:hmmm:

I'm still hoping more for the Coldfire Dragon to see the light of day. I've pretty much lost interest in the Amiga PPC and OS4 scene due to a lack of any real software development happening for the platform and it now languishing as a purely fan hobbiest sideline to the Amiga range.

Buleste
9th April 2008, 17:17
I'm still hoping more for the Coldfire Dragon to see the light of day. I've pretty much lost interest in the Amiga PPC and OS4 scene due to a lack of any real software development happening for the platform and it now languishing as a purely fan hobbiest sideline to the Amiga range.

O.K. I've risen to the bait. The whole Amiga scene has no software development and the whole platform of Amiga is purely a fan hobbyist sideline. Coldfire will make no difference to that neither will Shark.

Harrison
9th April 2008, 17:22
The difference is that ColdFire will allow most 68K code to work and therefore allow the majority of Amiga software to run much faster. Great for Workbench 3.9 and below, and great for productivity software.

In contrast PPC software is very rare and so any PPC based boards are still going to be next to useless as there isn't much to run on them natively.

This is why I'm still very interested in the Dragon Coldfire as it will allow me to build a towered Amiga and run a lot of classic Amiga software at very fast speeds.

Puni/Void
9th April 2008, 19:42
The difference is that ColdFire will allow most 68K code to work and therefore allow the majority of Amiga software to run much faster. Great for Workbench 3.9 and below, and great for productivity software.

The NatAmi team, with help from BBRV, are considering using Coldfire for the NatAmi. This is something I read over at Amigaworld.net. They are now in the process of trying to work things out.

If they can get this right, we are in for a real treat. :thumbs:

TiredOfLife
10th April 2008, 12:16
The difference is that ColdFire will allow most 68K code to work and therefore allow the majority of Amiga software to run much faster. Great for Workbench 3.9 and below, and great for productivity software.

In contrast PPC software is very rare and so any PPC based boards are still going to be next to useless as there isn't much to run on them natively.

This is why I'm still very interested in the Dragon Coldfire as it will allow me to build a towered Amiga and run a lot of classic Amiga software at very fast speeds.

ColdFire 68k isn't as compatible as first thought.
The various ways of getting round this, bring the speed to less than that of an 060.
To get full speed, programs have to be reworked.

This puts it the same position as PPC and OS4.

Much of the software for 3.9 can be run under OS4 using the inbuilt emulation.
( Not WHD though :( )
So on that basis, would be much more interested in the Shark.

Buleste
10th April 2008, 12:30
The reality is that as the Amiga hardware market is so small (Harrison himself says he uses an Amiga under emulation most of the time)that any company who produces any accelerator no matter what the CPU is going to have to price the thing so high to make any money that the market will shrink even more. And even if the sales are rspectable then the only software that we'll get will be Unix ported and nothing new of our own. NatAmi will have a CPU slot for Coldfire/PPC/Cell via third parties but because the market will be so small that any CPU upgrades will cost more than the NatAmi in the first place and only the most hardcore of Amiga Fans (notice i say fans because the Amiga market is made up of fans and retro boys like ourselves and no professionals) will be able to throw money at hardware that has no real software support.

TiredOfLife
10th April 2008, 13:57
Not true mate.
There is existing PPC technology that can be used and bought cheaply.

The Shark by all account is just a rebadged Sonnet Crescendo and can be bought for a few pounds.

OS4 can be ported to PPC relatively easy.
It's the court case that is putting the mockers on that.

Adding a PPC to an existing Amiga can be done under the terms of the contract, but that does have the added complication of drivers and whatever to connect the two.

If either of the two problems are resolved, money shouldn't be a problem.
I can guarantee more programming to be done for OS4 as more people switched.

That's not to say there will be a timewarp back to the golden age of the eighties or whatever, that wont happen unless something major occurs.
(Think I will start a seperate thread for that.)

At the moment there is a split for Amiga Programming.

Amiga 3xxx
Amiga 4
MorpOS
AROS

Some coders produce for one or more, some for one only and some for all.

If for instance OS3 users were able to migrate to OS4 cheaply enough there would be several benefits.

More coders with neccessary hardware to produce for OS4
A bigger pool of users under OS4 to make it worthwhile coding for.
Perhaps more cooperation between MorphOS and AOS4 coders as they are both PPC based.

As has been said, the Amiga is very much a hobby and fanboy platform, so anything produced generally comes from within this community.
So it's obviously a benefit to have more cooperation.

Watch this space. :)

Buleste
10th April 2008, 14:22
Not true mate.
There is existing PPC technology that can be used and bought cheaply.

The Shark by all account is just a rebadged Sonnet Crescendo and can be bought for a few pounds.

I've just taken a look at the Sonnet Crecendo and the shark and they are two different beasts. Apart from that Elbox have the cheapest at $450.00 (around 230.00) but because it's a PCI card if you don't already have a mediator then you have to buy one of them which is a further $310.00 (165.00). Don't know about you but that's more than a few pounds.


OS4 can be ported to PPC relatively easy.
It's the court case that is putting the mockers on that.

OS4 is PPC. The court case isn't stopping that. The court case is stopping sales/distribution.


Adding a PPC to an existing Amiga can be done under the terms of the contract, but that does have the added complication of drivers and whatever to connect the two.
?????


I can guarantee more programming to be done for OS4 as more people switched.

Yes more programming of ports will be done but only by fans. Basically the same people who are programming the stuff now. We will be getting stuff that is about 5+ years out of date and it will run like a pig as it's just a port and the people doing the port will be the ones with the high end machines.


At the moment there is a split for Amiga Programming.

Amiga 3xxx
Amiga 4
MorpOS
AROS

Some coders produce for one or more, some for one only and some for all.

If for instance OS3 users were able to migrate to OS4 cheaply enough there would be several benefits.

More coders with neccessary hardware to produce for OS4
A bigger pool of users under OS4 to make it worthwhile coding for.
But as i said at the start it won't be cheap to upgrade and as OS4 is little more than a slightly faster graphical update to 3.5 why bother?


Perhaps more cooperation between MorphOS and AOS4 coders as they are both PPC based.
They are two different beasts doing a similar thing you may as well try to get M$ and Apple to cooperate more as they both use Intel.


As has been said, the Amiga is very much a hobby and fanboy platform, so anything produced generally comes from within this community.
So why call out for new hardware that will deliver very little benefits and empty a huge hole in the pockets of said fanboys. (And this goes for all options of CPU).

I think that what we should be doing is what people are doing with some of the 8bit machines. Exploring the potential of existing hardware and getting the most out of it and get out of this PC frame of mind of asking for "More Power!!!" People said you couldn't do Doom on an Amiga let alone a Spectrum yet they are there and the Spectrum doesn't have any CPU upgrades.

TiredOfLife
10th April 2008, 14:56
I've just taken a look at the Sonnet Crecendo and the shark and they are two different beasts. Apart from that Elbox have the cheapest at $450.00 (around 230.00) but because it's a PCI card if you don't already have a mediator then you have to buy one of them which is a further $310.00 (165.00). Don't know about you but that's more than a few pounds.

They are not, trust me. Much research has been done elsewhere, they are the same.
Those prices have been there since the product was first announced some years past when the price was that high.
I take you point about the Mediator if you don't have one though.


OS4 is PPC. The court case isn't stopping that. The court case is stopping sales/distribution.

No it isn't. OS4 can be distributed for Classic Amigas with a PPC add on.
OS4 cannot be distributed with any other technology without a license from Amiga Inc.


Yes more programming of ports will be done but only by fans. Basically the same people who are programming the stuff now. We will be getting stuff that is about 5+ years out of date and it will run like a pig as it's just a port and the people doing the port will be the ones with the high end machines.

Already agreed coding will be done within the community.
Why five years out of date?
Apart from Skype, Amigas can do pretty much anything Windoze machines do.
(Although how long that situation will last depends on the issues we are discussing).
Why all ports, when that isn't the case now?
Don't forget we are basing this discussion on cheap upgrades or machines.
We will all be high end. (Well to a degree, we will be all at a similar level)


But as i said at the start it won't be cheap to upgrade and as OS4 is little more than a slightly faster graphical update to 3.5 why bother?

You don't know that it will be and I have seen the figures that it prove it can be.
(Althought that doesn't mean it will be.)
I'ts not just a slightly faster graphical update, it's an OS for faster hardware.
Hardware that's still in development more to the point.


They are two different beasts doing a similar thing you may as well try to get M$ and Apple to cooperate more as they both use Intel.
Not the same, as I have already said, coders are currently producing for both or even all the Amiga OSes and it's derivatives now.


So why call out for new hardware that will deliver very little benefits and empty a huge hole in the pockets of said fanboys. (And this goes for all options of CPU).
Why very little benefits?
Why upgrade anything be it car, computer, games console or household appliance?
As already stated doesn't have to be a huge hole.


I think that what we should be doing is what people are doing with some of the 8bit machines. Exploring the potential of existing hardware and getting the most out of it and get out of this PC frame of mind of asking for "More Power!!!" People said you couldn't do Doom on an Amiga let alone a Spectrum yet they are there and the Spectrum doesn't have any CPU upgrades.

I agree upto a point.
You should always be looking to do the most with the least.
That makes good economical and environmental sense.

But at the end of the day, you can't fit a pint into a half pint glass.
(Trust me, look at my kitchen floor.:D)

Buleste
10th April 2008, 20:52
Just read elsewhere that if your theory on the SharkPPC and Sonnet Crescendo are right then we're stuffed anyway as they are no longer in production and isn't the PPC being dropped?

TiredOfLife
15th April 2008, 15:48
PPC in general isn't being dropped.
It has been dropped by Apple who where the major buyers of the Sonnet.

I have heard unofficially, Elbox claim there isn't a problem.
Why there isn't, I can only speculate.

1) They have already bought a job lot.
2) They know someone who has them in stock.
3) They have a contract for some to be made when they are ready.

Who knows what the truth is?:huh2:

Harrison
15th April 2008, 16:22
People got a bit worried when Apple dropped PPC processors in their machines because Apple were one of the 3 main companies who own and developed the whole PPC range of processors. But there are still a lot of PPC processors used these days, especially in integrated solutions such as industrial machinery and home appliances.

In addition, all three current main consoles from M$, Sony and Nintendo are using custom versions of PPC processors in their consoles, so IBM have a much larger manufacturing revenue than when they were mainly supplying chips to Apple.

Buleste
15th April 2008, 19:06
PPC in general isn't being dropped.
It has been dropped by Apple who where the major buyers of the Sonnet.

I have heard unofficially, Elbox claim there isn't a problem.
Why there isn't, I can only speculate.

1) They have already bought a job lot.
2) They know someone who has them in stock.
3) They have a contract for some to be made when they are ready.

Who knows what the truth is?:huh2:

O.k. so the PPC isn't being dropped but the if the Sonnet and the Shark are the same then the Shark is already a dead end bit of hardware and once the stock is gone then thats it. In fact if they are the same piece of kit then all we need from Elbox is the drivers and the Amiga community can save money. But like i say if it's a dead end hardware that will not be developed further what's the point?

Harrison
15th April 2008, 22:04
But you could say the the same about the Amiga in general, that it is completely dead end hardware and hasn't really been developed for over 15 years!

My point being that the Amiga is always going to now be an enthusiast hobby for us all and whatever hardware upgrades we buy for them are going to be dead end in some way.

Buleste
16th April 2008, 10:23
Does that mean you are saying the Amiga is dead??

v85rawdeal
16th April 2008, 11:17
Nope, it's just been castrated... ;)


Think about it...:whistle:

Buleste
16th April 2008, 11:38
My mouse still has it's ball so thats not it. And the Amiga still uses the Boing Ball so thats not it. So thats two balls so i think you may be wrong v85.

TiredOfLife
16th April 2008, 16:34
PPC in general isn't being dropped.
It has been dropped by Apple who where the major buyers of the Sonnet.

I have heard unofficially, Elbox claim there isn't a problem.
Why there isn't, I can only speculate.

1) They have already bought a job lot.
2) They know someone who has them in stock.
3) They have a contract for some to be made when they are ready.

Who knows what the truth is?:huh2:

O.k. so the PPC isn't being dropped but the if the Sonnet and the Shark are the same then the Shark is already a dead end bit of hardware and once the stock is gone then thats it. In fact if they are the same piece of kit then all we need from Elbox is the drivers and the Amiga community can save money. But like i say if it's a dead end hardware that will not be developed further what's the point?

The point is pretty obvious.
It's all about getting the max possible of aging technology, see how far you can push it.
That's where the fun is.
Could easily buy a top of the range PC and do everything you want, but where is the fun element?
Computers are usually a tool but as Harrison says, the Amiga is pretty much a hobby for most people.
For me it's both but I've got the bug pretty badly.:)