Top 100 Discussions thread

[Harrison]

Please use this thread to discuss the Top 100 games list.

Discuss your own nominations and those made by others. Put forward your arguments why certain games should be included, and why others should not.

Discuss whatever you like about the Top 100 here.

All discussion and comment posts made in the official "stages" threads will also be moved here.

[Harrison]

This is great. We already have 7 lists of games posted, so we are well on the way to building the initial list. :) Thanks everyone who has already posted their lists.

Already we have a lot of games listed that were obviously going to make the top 100, but already we have also got some great ones I had completely forgotten about. I can't wait to see what we finally have once they are all merged into a single list.

[Buleste]

How about the top 10 worst games. Just so ROTR can win an award.

[Harrison]

I did think of that and we can definitely do that after the Top 100 is completed. Will be funny trying to work out what the bottom 10 worst Amiga games of all time actually were as there are quite a few bad ones out there.

We might actually need to test some of them to confirm how bad they really are! :lol:

[Buleste]

The winner is the next gaming competition.

[Harrison]

:lol: I have a feeling Teho might not like that idea. ;)

[Puni/Void]

Hehe.. that's true.. poor Teho.. :lol: It's hard suffering from the ROTR-syndrome. :(

[Buleste]

I've noticed that some of the more recent games are missing from the top 100. Napalm, Foundation etc. I've got a few of these games and to be honest they're o.k. but not remarkable which is unusual because normally when you get to the end of a systems life you get some of the best games because programmers have finally worked out how to get the most from the hardware.

[Harrison]

That is true, but equally many had already moved on and stopped buying new Amiga games by the time Foundation was released, so they missed some of the final games for the system.

But as you say most were not remarkable. The earlier games in the Amiga's life were the try innovators and genre definers.

[Sharingan]

Only two nominations for Hired Guns so far? I thought it was one of the most brilliant action RPGs for the Amiga. Played it to death with my brother, and finished the whole game like 5 or 6 times.

I especially loved the creepy atmosphere and the cool-ass character designs.

Perhaps the game will be remade some day.

[Tiago]

when do we pass to Stage Two ? We allready have a huge list....

[Harrison]

I was thinking next week. I think most people have now voted. I will double check the nominations and PM anyone who still hasn't voted on Monday. Then will send out a general PM announcing stage one will end next Friday to get everyone a chance to update and finalise their lists.

[Demon Cleaner]

I finally decided to vote today, but it was quite tough to find 100 games. I'm sure I missed even better ones, but that is quite normal, and the usual suspects are all present ;)

[Harrison]

I will be closing stage one some time in March, so if you haven't yet posted your list of games to nominate please do so as soon as you can to prevent you missing out on the chance to get your favourite games into the final list of stage 1.

And for all those who have already submitted your lists, please amend them if needed before time runs out.

I will announce the closing of stage 1 and move on to stage 2 in the next couple of weeks.

[Tiago]

Master, how many usual users are yet to vote? Will we move to next stage soon?

[Harrison]

I will be going through and checking this next week, and will PM any members who have yet to submit a vote to give them a few days to get some nominations in. Then I will close stage 1 and we can begin stage 2. :)

[Tiago]

Master,
are we ready to pass to stage two?

[Harrison]

As soon as I get time I will move it on to stage 2. As soon as I have all of the forum updates finished.

[Puni/Void]

Looking forward to stage two. It will be interesting to see which titles remain of all those that has been proposed.

[Harrison]

We definitely have a great selection to pick from. :)

[rayzorblue]

Damn it I didnt get a chance to vote :( . Oh and someone said somewhere in this thread about remaking a game, well if speedball 2 remake is anything to go by good old games should be left at just that, talking about speedball 2 i hope it made the list, gotta go find the list now.

[Harrison]

If you are quick you might still get your nominations in. I am definitely going to be closing stage one this week and moving it on to stage two though.

[Harrison]

OK. Stage One is now closed for voting. We have had a load of great games nominated in the first stage.

375 different games have been nominated in total.

Out of these, based on the number of times each game was nominated we currently have a rough top 10 favourite games of all time as follows:

1, Syndicate (14 votes)
2, The Secret of Monkey Island (13)
3, Cannon Fodder (12)
4, Flashback (12)
5, Pinball Fantasies (12)
6, Speedball II: Brutal Deluxe (12)
7, Lemmings (11)
9, Project X (10)
9, SWOS 96-97 (10)
10, The secret of Monkey Island 2 (10)

So, already we have a nice rough top 10 with some great games included, based on just the number of nominations. Obviously many of those share the same number of nominations so are not in a final order.

I've now compiled a spreadsheet containing all of the games, along with the number of times each was nominated. If you are interested in seeing the complete list I've attached the spreadsheet in excel format.

I will now begin working on Stage Two.

[Demon Cleaner]

True classics, but what did you expect :)

[my_lo]

I've had a look at the excel list and i've noticed that Giana sisters is there 3 times but with diferent writings and captions...

122 - Giana Sisters
321 - The great Giana sisters
322 - The Great Gianna Sisters

I love those sisters :D

[Harrison]

Ah, cheers for spotting that. I've combined those into a single entry and re-uploaded the excel file. I also noticed The Lost Vikings still had two entries too, so combined them as well.

If any of you spot any more let me know as it is hard to spot all of the similar entries in such a big list.

[Buleste]

Just noticed "Jamping Jack Son" should be Jumping and also i think you missed out ROTR. Someone must've voted for that;).

[Harrison]

Corrected that error. Cheers.

ROTR? Sorry I'm tired and my brain can't work that one out.

If it's not on the list then it wasn't nominated. I copied and pasted everyone's lists into excel, data sorted them into alphabetical order, and then tidied and merged all the same entries to create the list, so everything nominated is in there.

[Buleste]

Surely you remember the beat em up to end all beat em ups. Rise Of The Robots!!! I would have thought someone nominated that superb game;).

[Harrison]

Ah! :lol: Maybe Teho just completely forgot to include the most sentimental game in his Amiga collection. ;)

[Teho]

You know, I did consider including it. :lol: But as most of us I had enough trouble as it was narrowing my list down to only 100. So no joke entries, sorry. ;)

[Harrison]

I bet if you had included it everyone would have voted for it in the next round for fun and it would have ended up being one of our final top 100! :lol:

[Cortona]

Nuts - I missed the nominations stage. I think pretty much all my faves got listed, although I did see someone nominate 'Eco', presumably in jest!

I'm looking forward to seeing the definitive top 100.

[Harrison]

Hopefully I will have time this month to begin the next stage of the process. Then you will have chance to vote on the top 100 you would like to see out of all the games nominated.

[Puni/Void]

Hopefully I will have time this month to begin the next stage of the process. Then you will have chance to vote on the top 100 you would like to see out of all the games nominated.

Looking forward to that. It will be interesting to see which titles remain after the voting.

[Tiago]

We should go to step 2 in this process.... long time since stage 1

[Harrison]

Very true. So much to do on classicamiga, and so little time for me to do it all! :lol:

I will see what I can do. The second stage is a bit more complicated that the first because members need to be able to select 100 games from the compete nominated list of games, and then to be able to order those 100 games into the order they want them to be listed, from 100 to 1. That way we can built up a complete top 100.

I wll think some more on how this could be done.

[Bloodwych]

I forgot all about this!

We could shorten the process considerably and save Harrision some work by simply giving the vote of confidence to my list.

All raise their hands if you agree Bloodwych's top 100 rules.

*raises hand*

:yesyes:

[Tiago]

I forgot all about this!

We could shorten the process considerably and save Harrision some work by simply giving the vote of confidence to my list.

All raise their hands if you agree Bloodwych's top 100 rules.

*raises hand*

:yesyes:

buuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu !!!

[Bloodwych]

buuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu !!!

*Sits back down in a sulk*

:D

[v85rawdeal]

I would raise my hands but Buleste made me cut them off!!!

[Harrison]

Nice try Bloodwych (http://forum.classicamiga.com/member.php?u=105). I don't think they are buying it though! ;) :lol:

[Buleste]

I would raise my hands but Buleste made me cut them off!!!

Things just keep getting better.;)

[Tiago]

Harrison,

we must continue this project.
Any ideia in how we are going to vote?
Should we do an Excel with the list and give points from 1 to 100 with no repeat, and then joint the excel from all members and sum the points...

any ideias?

[Demon Cleaner]

Harrison,

we must continue this project.
Any ideia in how we are going to vote?
Should we do an Excel with the list and give points from 1 to 100 with no repeat, and then joint the excel from all members and sum the points...

any ideias?Definitely!

[Harrison]

Don't worry. It will continue. I have the next stage planned, using the voting/survey software I've mentioned before. Hopefully I will be able to continue it before the end of this month.

[Harrison]

I can't believe it has been so long since we started this project. Time to complete it.

I'm currently building a new Survey site that can be used to complete this top 100 finally. It will be launched either tomorrow or early next week.

The final thing to work out is how to conduct the final part of the survey. There are 2 ways we could do it.

1, Each member selects their complete Top 100 Amiga games from the complete list of nominated games in the order they want them to be.

2, Each member selects their Top 10 Amiga Games from the complete list of nominated games in the order they want them to be.

The first option would work best if we can't get too many people to vote, and the second if we can get more.

It would make the survey much easier for members to use if they only need to pick a top 10, and I think if we can advertise and invite people from as many other Amiga and retro communities as we can to take part it should work.

What do you think?

The actual mechanics of the survey will work by the user having the complete list of games in a scrolling list on the left of the page, and as they select each game it will be added to their Top 10 or Top 100 list on the right. This I think will be the easiest way for a user to arrange their Top games list. Then once complete they can submit it.

In addition to the actual games list we can use the survey to collect any additional information about the user we can think of. Maybe something like How long have you been an Amiga gamer, member's age, country and language of origin, Amiga models owned, favourite genre.. etc.

I think we could end up collecting some great information from such a survey. Ideas on questions we could ask as part of the survey?

[Tiago]

great! you should also ask what would you like to see in CA? and what would you like to have as amiga system.

[Demon Cleaner]

Chosing the top 10 would be the easiest, at least for me ;)

[Harrison]

Yep, I agree, picking a top 10 will keep the survey small and quick for people to enter their choices, so should attract more people to take part.

OK, I'm going to start building this, this afternoon. :)

[Harrison]

great! you should also ask what would you like to see in CA? and what would you like to have as amiga system.

I think these suggestions deserve surveys in their own right.

Whilst the results of the Top 100 games of all time will be published by classicamiga and tied directly into the main site, with links to each game in our database, I want to keep the actual Top 100 games of all time survey more generic and not CA specific.

This is because I want to try and get as many people as we can from as many different Amiga communities to take part. I will be posting links to the survey on as many forums as I can, and I know that if some think it is directly about CA they might be put off as it isn't directly for their own communities.

I'm going to try and target it as the largest Amiga Top 100 games survey of all time, trying to bring together everyone in the whole Amiga community to cast their vote and build up a true representation of the ultimate Top 100 Amiga games of all time. :)

[Tiago]

Ok, i can also put a post on some Foruns here in PT about it, maybe i can redirect some people.
tell me when you think it's the right time to do it.

[J T]

I can't be bothered to vote for 100 games, in fact it's unlikely I even tried that many.

However, choosing just ten may lead to a whole load of single-vote games getting in the list - how would you rank them?

Another option is to give each of the 10 nominated games points (say ten points for your first pick, decreasing as the list goes down) but even this can make the tail end of the 100 be games that only one person has ranked/voted for.

[Harrison]

Very good point JT.

Some games magazines such as PCGamer use a reader's top 10 voting submission to compile their Top 100 games, so they obviously worked something out to get around this problem.

Awarding points based on where a game is in each submitting users list could work, as a game with a single vote higher on on a list would have more points, and therefore be higher up the final top 100 list.

Maybe we should leave that out to begin with, and if this happens and we end up with a lot of single vote games at the bottom of the top 100, we (the staff of CA) can review the list and make the final decision about what stays and what goes, as well as the final order. We could then utilise a points system if needed to work it out.

In fact, the survey software I'm setting up might be able to automate some of this for us to save the headache. I will have a play around with it and let you know.

[Harrison]

Ok, i can also put a post on some Foruns here in PT about it, maybe i can redirect some people.
tell me when you think it's the right time to do it.

Great. The more people we can attract from different countries the better. :)

Don't advertise it yet though as the final URL for the survey isn't active yet. I will post the url once it is all setup and ready to go. It might also be worth us all submitting out votes first before it goes live as a final test run to find any bugs.

I'm also thinking that if this is successful, we could then rerun it yearly and update the top 100 accordingly. Maybe even adding more Top 100's for things like the Demo scene, which could be great fun in the future.

[burns flipper]

When does the survey close?

(also, it's nice to see some PD games in there like Gravity Power and Scorched Tanks)

[Harrison]

I'm aiming to close it at the end of this month, but if it is still proving popular and we are still getting new registrations and voting I will consider keeping the survey open a bit longer.

I've only just added the survey announcement to a few additional sites too, so that will attract more I'm sure. Andreas of Amiga Future was even kind enough to post the announcement on the Amiga Future news page.

[Puni/Void]

Top 100's for the Demoscene would be very interesting to see, Harrison. If you're going to launch such a survey, when do you think that will be? I'll gladly help out on this one if you need any support.



Ok, i can also put a post on some Foruns here in PT about it, maybe i can redirect some people.
tell me when you think it's the right time to do it.

Great. The more people we can attract from different countries the better. :)

Don't advertise it yet though as the final URL for the survey isn't active yet. I will post the url once it is all setup and ready to go. It might also be worth us all submitting out votes first before it goes live as a final test run to find any bugs.

I'm also thinking that if this is successful, we could then rerun it yearly and update the top 100 accordingly. Maybe even adding more Top 100's for things like the Demo scene, which could be great fun in the future.

[Harrison]

I was going to ask you to begin working on ideas for a demo scene survey when you have some free time.

It will use the same software as the current survey, and this is quite diverse in the types of question you can include, so feel free to think of anything for a demo scene survey that you wish.

We can do selection lists as has already been used in the current survey, tick box multiple choice, radio button selection, grid selection (rating 1-5 or 1-10), and much more. So if you have an idea for a question type and are not sure if we can do it ask and I can confirm if it is possible.

The software also allows logic based on answers, so if for example someone answered yes to a question if could unlock an additional question, which would not show if no was selected. This could be useful in a demo scene survey for something like asking if someone was a member of any groups.