Fighting Fantasy game books

[Harrison]

Did anyone else buy the Fighting Fantasy Gamebooks? in the 80's?

http://www.fightingfantasygamebooks.com/gamebooks.htm

These were created by Ian Livingstone and Steve Jackson.

I was a big fan of this series and purchased the first 7 books on their release and religiously played through them all, then purchasing many of the books released throughout the series as it was later continued, totalling 59 books.

Some of my favourite ones included Citadel of Chaos (the first one I completed), Warlock of Firetop Mountain (the first in the series), City of Thieves, Deathtrap Dungeon, Freeway Fighter (Post Apocalyptic road wars style), and StarShip Traveller (Megatraveller inspired). Most of those being from the first of the books.

Steve Jackson also released a 4 book series called Sorcery! that were more complex book based RPGs which also required you to purchase a 5th book "The Sorcery Spell Book" which was required in order to play through the 4 books. This was a great 4 book RPG and I enjoyed that even more than the main range of FF books.

A magazine was also released called Warlock, which was a monthly magazine running for 13 issues and contained a part based FF RPG adventure running throughout the series. It also contained a lot of other great information relating to the series.

An off shoot full RPG was also released, which used the easy to learn RPG rules from the game books, allowing you to create your own paper and disc RPGs. I used to play this around the same time as the original Dungeons and Dragons and had create fun. They even released a book devoted to the city features in the FF gamebook "City of Thieves" so you could set games within the same city, and a bestiary called "Out of the Pit" which detailed all monsters and enemies from the FF series.

You can find a full list of all Fighting Fantasy gamebooks and related books and magazines on this page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Fighting_Fantasy_gamebooks

I can't believe it is now the 25th anniversary of the original book, Warlock of Firetop Mountain, being released.

[Sharingan]

I've never been into pen-and-paper RPGs myself, but I know people who actually hold regular (sometimes even weekly) sessions with friends. Not having actually seen such a game, I honestly can't even imagine how it is played.

Are these books basically novels, but with elements that require player interaction (such as throwing dice to determine the outcome of an encounter, among other things)? If that's the gist of it, I might actually have a similar book somewhere in my bookcase, except it stars Asterix and Obelix, with Roman legions instead of trolls 'n' goblins :thumbs:

[Tiago]

I played with the first one
"The Warlock of Firetop Mountain" very nice book.
This first book i played by the rules.... after, the other books i just read them, the part where you were suposed to play with dices i just skip and keep reading it like if i won all the battles....

[Harrison]

Are these books basically novels, but with elements that require player interaction (such as throwing dice to determine the outcome of an encounter, among other things)?

Yes. You get a character stats page at the start of the book. You role dice to determine your characters starting statistics, including health, armour, dexterity, luck, charisma etc... These are then used throughout the books to determine the outcome of an event. For example if you enter a room and open a chest, you could then roll a dice and use your character's luck score to work out if the chest has a trap or not. Similarly if you wee jumping a gap you could use dexterity to determine the outcome.

The actual books are like a novel, but at the end of a section you get a number of options and have to turn to the page based on the option you select. Or it could be a dice role or other event that determines which page you have to go to next. So basically you are reading the book like a novel, but in a non-linear way, jumping back and fourth through the book based on the options you choose and the outcome of dice roles.

You also encounter enemies and fight them using your statistics against those given for the enemy in the book, and using the combat system given in the book. Once the battle is complete you then continue reading and might need to pick an option based on the outcome of the battle.

So basically the books work just like a full paper and dice RPG you would play with a group of people and a controlling Dungeon Master, but with the book acting like the Dungeon Master.

And Tiago, just reading it without acting the part and performing the actions is very naughty!! ;)

[Harrison]

These books can also be quite complex. The first book, Warlock of Firetop Mountain, doesn't seem that big as a book, but can take many hours to complete. And at the time, with a friend, we decided to map out the whole of the game's level and used a big A1 sheet of paper. We managed to complete the whole map and the game's dungeon/area structure was quite big and impressed us.

[Tiago]

And Tiago, just reading it without acting the part and performing the actions is very naughty!!

:lol::lol:

:oops:
:biglol:

[Sharingan]

Aha. So it's actually possible to get a different ending as well, depending on which choices you made?

I imagine that if there are many branching storylines, it could actually take many, many playthroughs to see everything. Or, you could just cheat and read the book like you would a novel.

[Harrison]

Exactly. Most contained different endings. It's quite hard to just read them like a novel as they are not linear, so each page doesn't follow on to the next, but you could do as Tiago said and just follow the best options at the end of each page to see the whole game through to the end.

[Sharingan]

I can imagine you'd be tempted to cheat every now and then.


"You encounter a bloodthirsty forest troll. Roll the dice to determine the outcome of the fight. If you roll 6, 5, 4, or 3, you may proceed to page 203, section III. If you roll 2 or 1, tough luck, buddy. Game over."


"Right. Here goes."

*rolls 1*

"Damn."

*rolls 2*

"WTF."

*rolls 1*

"Hell no, I'm not gonna start over from the beginning."

*rolls 1*

"Argh."

*rolls 2*

"$%^$^%$#!"

*rolls 2*

"These dice are cursed, man. Cursed, I tell you."

*rolls 5*

"Finally."

[Harrison]

The technique was more to keep you finger in the last page and read through one branch, and if it turned out bad you could then go back and take a different route. A bit like a privative save game. :lol:

[Buleste]

I think i had the first 25 books of the FF series then i went into Pen and Paper RPG's and Warhammer etc. Still play every now and again when i'm not playing Ocarina Of Time on my GC.

[Harrison]

I miss playing paper and dice RPGs, and Warhammer even more so. I used to love playing table top war games. :) Sadly there are now none of the friends left that played.

[Buleste]

Same here. I try looking for gaming clubs but i'm in my thirties and when you turn up at these clubs and it's a lot of kid's you feel very self consious.

[Harrison]

Why? You could use the power of your age to your advantage by reducing the common rule arguments that always happen mid battle to the simple comment "I'm older and have more experience, so what I say goes!". That way you should easily win as you can "adjust" the rules to suit. ;)

[khaxzan]

I can imagine you'd be tempted to cheat every now and then.


"You encounter a bloodthirsty forest troll. Roll the dice to determine the outcome of the fight. If you roll 6, 5, 4, or 3, you may proceed to page 203, section III. If you roll 2 or 1, tough luck, buddy. Game over."


"Right. Here goes."

*rolls 1*

"Damn."

*rolls 2*

"WTF."

*rolls 1*

"Hell no, I'm not gonna start over from the beginning."

*rolls 1*

"Argh."

*rolls 2*

"$%^$^%$#!"

*rolls 2*

"These dice are cursed, man. Cursed, I tell you."

*rolls 5*

"Finally."

:hmmm: Of course, the experience of the battle is lost with the flick of the dice.

All of you who own or read these books, I hate your guts.

[my_lo]

I was a big fan too :thumbs: but in french, it was called "les livres dont vous êtes le héro", it was really great, i've found this picture with all the covers:
http://pagesperso-orange.fr/livresdontvousetesleheros/wallpapers.htm

It was where all the roleplaying adventure started for me: Chtulhu, AD&D, the black eye...

Man i wish i had kept my books. Maybe i could try the english version, i've seen that you can still buy them... If i had to start with one of the FF collection, which one would you advise?

Btw, i have started to write a scenario for Vampire which is especially made to be played with only 2 persons.
I have moved to another city 5 years ago, most of the people here talk another language than i do (belgium dual language, argh) and nobody that i know play rpgs. Therefor, I had to find a way to go on playing paper RPG with only my wife... If someone is in the same situation, i can email what i have already written... It's in english...

[Buleste]

I have many GB of RPG stuff. Let me know what you would like and if i haven't got it i can probably get it. May even be able to get some french versions.

[my_lo]

I have many GB of RPG stuff. Let me know what you would like and if i haven't got it i can probably get it. May even be able to get some french versions.

Thanks for the offer but i already have a huge stock of RPG stuff, the only thing i miss are my "livres dont vous êtes le héro", they have been destroyed in the basement flooding at my parent's place several years ago... So i was more thinking about buying one or two GB from here (http://www.fightingfantasygamebooks.com/gamebooks.htm). Any good one i should start with?

[Buleste]

I us ed to have the first 30 or so but it's been a while. If i remember rightly Freeway Fighter was good. Why not go here (http://www.the-underdogs.info/gamebook.php) for some free gamebooks to download. No FF but plenty of others including The Way of the Tiger series (God i loved that game).

[khaxzan]

Usually men with no girl experience are prone to these books. Holt is a sinner. He should go down with the Kursk.

Oh wait.

He has.

Of d20 and d6 rolls while testing your SKILL it is imperative to test your LUCK and knock off from the initial. Buy them *used* and the authors never benefit, especially Jon Green. ;)

[Harrison]

The first 7 fighting fantasy game books actually contributed greatly to helping me learn to read properly. I had very bad dyslexia when I was very young and it made me a very slow reader. But when the first few Fighting Fantasy game books came out in 1982 that really helped as it made me want to read them and it speeded up my reading greatly and got me more interested in books overall.

[khaxzan]

It makes sense. Why waste your time reading classical literature?

[Harrison]

When you are having trouble reading basic words, because they are jumbling up in your brain and hard to read, trying to read classical literature wasn't even considered. But after reading these FF books I really started to gain a big interest in reading and within a couple of years had read LOTR and loads of other fantasy novels. Thinking about it now I can't imagine not being able to read book. I feel sorry for all the people who still can't read or write.

[v85rawdeal]

House of Hell was the only one of the first 19 I did not complete... That was a real bi-atch!

[my_lo]

I had very bad dyslexia when I was very young and it made me a very slow reader.

I've had pretty much the same experience. At first, i had no problem at all with speaking/reading/writing, then one day i had an accident, i felt on my head and i had completely forgotten everything language related. I had to relearn everything from scratch but this time with a big dislexia. And it's also thanks to that kind of books that my reading could be somewhat re-educated. Now, i read almost a book/week but i stick to sci-fi/fantasy, i find classical literature/real life stories boring. When i read, i like to evade the monotony of the daily life, not to read more about it...

[Harrison]

Finding it hard to read due to an accident would surely be some form of brain damage and therefore a mental problem? I hope you managed to fully recover from such a bad accident, however I don't think actual dyslexia can be caused from an accident. Or can it? I'm not 100% sure.

Those with dyslexia find it hard to read because the words jump around on the page and the brain can't read the letters of a word in the correct order. I sometimes still notice this happening when I'm reading, but with certain letter jumping out at me within a word and overpowering the word, forcing me to reread the word to then understand it. Quite annoying, but it doesn't happen as often as it used to when I was younger. Placing pink or yellow acetate sheets over the words is also meant to help dyslexia sufferers read more easily. I think it softens the contrast between the white page and the stark contrast of the black letter, and this reduces the number of letters that jump out at the reader, over powering the words, or jumbling the letters up.

[khaxzan]

Favourite FF books, or CHoose Your own Adventure. Choose Your Own Adventure is by far easier to read.

[Harrison]

Choose your own adventure always felt too American to me and I always got very bored reading them. FF books were much better written.

[khaxzan]

They are not boring, if it weren't for them you wouldn't have your precious FF and Lone Wolf.

FF is on a downhill roll apparently from what I've read. Take care, and enjoy the memories. If all, support those who continue to keep it alive.

[v85rawdeal]

These ones, especially, should be of interest to us. More information can be found here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zork_books).



The Zork books were a series of four books, written by S. Eric Meretzky, which took place in the fictional universe of Zork. The books were published by Tor Books. Like the Zork computer games, the books were a form of interactive fiction which offered the reader a choice of actions symbolized by pages to turn to, as in the contemporary book series Choose Your Own Adventure, or the later Give Yourself Goosebumps series. The protagonists of each book were a boy and girl, called Bill and June on Earth, and re-dubbed Bivotar and Juranda in Zork. The settings and plots were remiscent of locations and events from the Zork universe.
At each ending the player received a score from zero to ten based on how far they had made it through the book and if the ending was a failure, a chance to try again at the choice where they decided incorrectly. The books also usually contained a "cheater trap," reached by opting to use an item which does not exist (at least not in the current book). The story abruptly ends, the reader is chastised and not given a chance to try again in the endings resulting from these.
The books were written in English and translated into Spanish. All four books were published as "What-Do-I-Do-Now Books." Copies did contain publication errors — page numbers that the reader was directed to turn to or turn back to were at times incorrect. The first three books were published as a trilogy in August and September 1983 — each has the titles of the other two listed opposite the cover page. The fourth book in the series was published in October 1984.

[burns flipper]

My first FF was Deathtrap Dungeon, hadn't seen anything like it before and my village library stocked loads. I took House of Hell on holiday when I was little - it rained for the entire week so I stayed in and read it and never managed to complete it. You had to get the Kriss knife to kill the bad guy, I knew it was under some stairs but was never given the option to turn around and look when I'd descended. Infuriating!

I also did some of the novel/advanced ones, the series of 4 - they were quite good I think. I remember getting to the very end and not having all of the crowns (you had to collect 9 or something).

Fabled Lands (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fabled_Lands) sounds interesting but I only discovered these very recently.

[Harrison]

They are not boring, if it weren't for them you wouldn't have your precious FF and Lone Wolf.

I think D&D is more the main direct inspiration for the FF books. And they did create an adventure book called The Magic Quest, before beginning the FF series.

Also the fact that Steve Jackson and Ian Livingston are the co-founders of the great Games Workshop is a big thing to most from the UK.

It is always personal preference but I just didn't like the Choose your own adventure books. The lack of dice rolling or real RPG elements was a big part of that. However I also found that because many of them were set in realistic American settings, or written from an American point of view, that they were just boring.

In contrast the rich fantasy universes of the Fighting Fantasy books was very intriguing and the RPG system worked well, while remaining simple enough not to get too complicated for most to enjoy.

One series I never manged to finish was Steve Jackson's Sorcery! I initially bought the first two books and because I purchased the original versions of them I had to also buy the separate spell book. Later releases included it within the main books. I'm sure I finished the first one but not the second. I really must dig those out some time.

[v85rawdeal]

A quick review of the first 18 books (the ones that I played).

Warlock of Firetop Mountain - I enjoyed this book, especially the labyrinth. Such a great way to start a series of enjoyable books. - 6 out of 10

Citadel of Chaos (or as I pronounced it - Char-ooze) - I wasn't a huge fan if this book, I felt that it lacked something the first one had although the magic system did somewhat make up for it. - 5 out of 10

Forest of Doom - Oh I so enjoyed this one. I can't put my finger on it but it was just so good. Certainly helped to shape my D&D career. - 7 out of 10

Starship Trooper - I am not certain about this one, it wasn't quite as big as the others but it was well-done. I actually feel they could have done a series similar to Sorcery based on all the ideas they incorporated into this one book. Clever, yes, but I didn't enjoy it as much as some of the others. - 6 out of 10

City of Thieves - Like Forest of Doom, this is another of the books that I loved. Again, no one element can be picked out as to what it was that I enjoyed the most, but the atmosphere of the city was almost tangible. - 8 out of 10

Deathtrap Dungeon - Stunningly good book. With an almost MMORPG feel, with the meeting of other participants. Would love to see an online version of this with regular tournaments held weekly!!! - 8 out of 10

Island of the Lizard King - I found this one to be a bit mediocre. It didn't enthrall me, nor did it bore me like Citadel of Chaos did. In all, a fairly average book. - 4 out of 10

Scorpion Swamp - This looked like it was the GRAND departure from the norm that I had looked for. The first book by the American Mr Jackson, it offered three quests, and a highly non-linear path. Not quite the pot of gold I had hoped for but still an enjoyable book with true replay value. 7 out of 10

Caverns of the Snow Witch - The prequel to Forest of Doom, and originally just a short adventure in Warlock magazine. To be honest, not one I can remember too much about. I guess it fits into a similar rating as Island of the Scorpion King. 5 out of 10

House of Hell - One of the only books I have not completed (out of the books I have played). A great story, a real dread atmosphere and the interior artwork helped to cement its position as probably my favourite book. Must get it again and complete it!!! - 9 out of 10

Talisman of Doom - Written by the guys behind the Way of the Tiger gamebooks, it is the second gamebook that uses a human from Earth, but this time you are on another world. Not a bad story, with some of the characters also appearing in the Way of the Tiger series. - 6 out of 10

Space Assassin - Did not like this book, it seemed too much like a rehash of Warlock of Firetop Mountain just set in space. More filler than thriller. 3 out of 10

Freeway Fighter - The thing that attracted me mainly to this book was the original cover. I am glad to say that I wasn't disappointed. The book did exactly what it hinted at. an enjoyable book, with a few innovations to seperate it from the other books. But not great. 7 out of 10

Temple of Terror - I found this to be a rather ho-hum level of adventure, neither one thing or another. The setting though helped to save the book somewhat as it was somewhere new. 6 out of 10

Rings of Kether - Not a bad book, but another one introducing new rules and multiple combat systems. A passable story, but certainly nothing to endear me to the author, who also wrote Space Assassin. 5 out of 10

Seas of Blood - Pirates. Slavery. Cruelty. Certainly not normal 'hero' actions. quite a good book, making up for the author's previous books. 6 out of 10

Appointment with Fear - Whilst not the greatest book it was clearly a labour of love. Bigger than normal with a lot more humour placed in the story. 7 out of 10

Rebel Planet - An okay story, but not one to stick in the mind and make me want to play it again. 5 out of 10

After that, it got very hit and miss as to me reading the books. I think I got put off too much by the mediocre stories.

[khaxzan]

I liked Sky Lord and Starship TRaveller.


One series I never manged to finish was Steve Jackson's Sorcery! I initially bought the first two books and because I purchased the original versions of them I had to also buy the separate spell book. Later releases included it within the main books. I'm sure I finished the first one but not the second. I really must dig those out some time. Then what you need is to take the Challenge of the Month over at my forum; there's an FF section there. ;)

I tried to play these books but getting all the crowns is too hard. I tried as the magician.


After that, it got very hit and miss as to me reading the books. I think I got put off too much by the mediocre stories. go to used books stores.

[Harrison]

Out of those first books from the FF series my favourite is still Citadel of Chaos. It was the first book in the series that I completed. Not sure why as I owned the first 7 books on release.

I then went on to read Firetop Mountain and with a friend we used both of our copies of the book to map the whole of the dungeon complex for Firetop mountain on a huge A1 sheet of paper with information and detailed notes. I might even still have that map somewhere.

The other favourite of mine from those were Deathtrap Dungeon, Starship Traveller, City of Thieves, Forest of Doom and Freeway Fighter.

Freeway Fighter was quite different to the other FF books before it, with the exception of maybe Starship Traveler. And being a big Mad Max and post apocalyptic fan I loved that book. Wished they had taken that much further. That drew me into playing the Battle Cars boardgame. Starship Traveler also interested me greatly as I had been playing Megatraveller.

I also later went on to play the full Fighting Fantasy RPG system and the books like city of thieves and Forest of Doom greatly influenced the games we made and played. I loved the Titan game world and the beastary created for it. Easy to get new players into a game than D&D was as the rules were so easy to pick up, so within minutes you could have new players enjoying an RPG with a group of experienced players.

[burns flipper]

Joe Dever (Lone Wolf author) did a 4-gamebook series called 'Freeway Warrior' you might lke.

[Harrison]

I do know of those Freeway Warrior books, but I've not seen or read any of them. Are they related to the Freeway Fighter game book? Or do they just share a similar title?

[khaxzan]

Citadel of Chaos is faily easy to succeed with. House of Hell is a different matter. Joe Dever isn't half as good as the FF books. Not as much thought and violence put into it. I like Freeway Fighter, but Beneath Nightmare Castle is my favourite above all.:shades:

[khaxzan]

Do you see now how QUICK things fall apart? No wonder D.Holt has problems with FF :sick:

[burns flipper]

I do know of those Freeway Warrior books, but I've not seen or read any of them. Are they related to the Freeway Fighter game book? Or do they just share a similar title?Similar title. I have one (from a car boot sale) but have never played it. You should be able to pick them up cheap if you're interested, try ebay or abebooks.co.uk